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Janet7
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Posted: Feb-10-10 at 12:14pm | IP Logged Quote Janet7

I remember reading a book by Fenelon called, "Let Go" years ago, but I believe that is the only book I have read by him.  I'll have to look for it on my bookshelves and read it again...

I don't know Michele Perry - I will look into her books -

I am also very grateful for the testimonies of the saints - in my case, I think it is because it is so difficult to find individuals with whom I can have conversations about living in Christ, and growth in the Spirit.  Even in the bible study group we have at my church, it tends to be very intellectual and cerebral, and no one really talks that much about their feelings, or about their yearning for God and His presence.  So the written testimonies of these great writers really are encouraging.

Janet

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Feb-10-10 at 12:45pm | IP Logged Quote gregoryfl

You sisters talking about Jeanne Guyon took me back to my bookshelf over here, because the name sounded familiar, and I see I have a copy of her work "Intimacy with Christ." It has been years since I read it last, but I plan on perusing it again. She indeed was given some awesome insights into the heart of Christ.

One thing you mentioned Janet, that I am so happy to hear, is that instead of rejecting everything having to do with your heritage, you are using discernment, to see the difference between that which is light and life, and that which is not. It is all too easy for those who start to question their church to just totally forsake anything having to do with it, and some even (like myself for a time) end up rejecting even the people in it. I have come to see that the Lord is so much bigger than even the religions that claim to serve him, and he is more than able to provide a witness even in the midst of Babylon itself, just as he did with regard to Daniel when he was in Babylon literally. I believe that you are such a witness.

As Joy put it, Christ indeed manifests himself in all sorts of situations, not even death can stop him from doing so. :)

Ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Feb-10-10 at 12:46pm


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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Janet7
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Posted: Feb-10-10 at 1:04pm | IP Logged Quote Janet7

Dear Ron,

Thank you so much for the validation and the support in your post.  It means a lot to me.

I hope I can be a witness "in the midst of Babylon", as you wrote.

Janet

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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Feb-14-10 at 6:31am | IP Logged Quote Rest and Trust

Janet7 wrote:

Hello - I am new here - and I feel kind of overwhelmed by all of the messages and postings in the "Shovel.net" and in the the "Shovel Shack" - as if it would take me eons to "catch up".  And yet, I desperately feel the need to grasp the concept of grace above law, as I have been Catholic since birth, and was raised in the Catholic Church, in parochial school, in the "dark ages" before Vatican II - I was 6 years old and in the 1st grade in 1959, and attended a particularly medieval school and church, with a lot of indoctrination about the wrath of an ever-vigilant God - with nothing taught to us kids about His love for us - and I go through periods of staying away from Mass for periods of time, because attending a Catholic Church is almost like going back to my abuser, and there is an element of post-traumatic stress disorder going on in me when I return - but when I stay away, as I am presently doing, I feel fear, which I am sure is residual trauma left over from the early years.  As the Jesuits say, "Give us a child when they are 6 years old, and they will be ours forever". 

I do find a lot of spiritual nourishment in the Catholic Church, however, especially in the Eucharist, and in the rich heritage of contemplative prayer and meeting God in silence, which is my spiritual practice.

So as I come to this forum, that is one of the major issues I am dealing with - having grown up with the teaching that the Roman Catholic Church was the "one true church", and that everyone else was condemned - and now the present Pope has made a statement, a major regression in the Church in my opinion, that the Catholic Church is the "one true Church", and that other churches are "defective". 

The other reason I am writing is that I have just read an older "Shoveletter", "The Foolishness of God", and I am somewhat disturbed by it, although I may not be understanding it correctly.  The statement "The judgment of Jesus was the judgment of all mankind" seems like something right out of that 1st-grade Catholic classroom.  I don't see God as a Judge, and have been trying to move away from that concept of Him, so the idea that He judged not only His Son, but all humankind, is disturbing to me. 

Also, the statements, "The door to heaven was not opened by His death, but was totally shut down by it", and "God damned His own Son and in doing so God damned the whole creation" also does not strike me as "foolishness" or "ridiculousness", but as the same-old/same-old (only maybe worse???) monstrous-God which was presented to me as real years ago, and from which I have been trying to de-traumatize myself!

I just found these statements strange to read on a grace website.  I probably am not familiar enough with this website to have properly understood these statements, or the letter itself.

I would appreciate any thoughts or responses to this letter, which might help me to understand, I would appreciate it.

Janet



Hello Janet,
Have not checked into the Shack for a while but I must say what you expressed here is just what I was looking for.

You mention that your not sure if you could ever "catch-up" Sounds to me like you have an excellent grasp of Truth.

Thanks,

Joe
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luvin
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Posted: Feb-14-10 at 8:36am | IP Logged Quote luvin

Hey Joe!

So glad you popped in bro!! Thanks for the PM!

 

 



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Janet7
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Posted: Feb-14-10 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote Janet7

Joe,

Thanks for letting me know that you related to my post, and for the kind words...

Nice to "meet" you,

Janet

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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Feb-14-10 at 11:04pm | IP Logged Quote Rest and Trust

luvin wrote:

Hey Joe!

So glad you popped in bro!! Thanks for the PM!

 

 




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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Feb-14-10 at 11:12pm | IP Logged Quote Rest and Trust

Janet7 wrote:

Joe,

Thanks for letting me know that you related to my post, and for the kind words...

Nice to "meet" you,

Janet



Janet,
it is Great to meet you too.

I have experienced the scenario of trying to continue in the institutional church while at the same time desiring to walk by the Spirit outside of the confines of the IC. It is nice that we are free to follow the Spirit wherever He leads....
 



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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Feb-14-10 at 11:37pm | IP Logged Quote Rest and Trust

Im sure the original question in this thread has been answered already but just to offer my take-

If God had not condemned the entirety of sin on the Cross we would have to continue under judgment and the result condemnation. It was only by God placing sin on the cross and thereby completely judging sin that we are free to be born-again of his Spirit. Otherwise there would have been no doorway through which the seed of God could flow into us and create children of God. (That goes for all who believed in the future event of the judgment of sin on the cross in the OT.)


  
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Janet7
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Posted: Feb-15-10 at 9:06am | IP Logged Quote Janet7

Joe,

Thanks for posting your take on my original question.  It is much easier for me to think of God as judging sin on the cross, rather than judging humankind, so your post helped me with this.

Although I am still trying to keep some contact with the institutional church, it can be very frustrating, as I'm sure you know.  I have always longed for a small Christian fellowship community, like the house churches which sprung up in the '70s.  My husband and I were members of a house church, a covenented community, in 1975, but it split-up in about three years, mostly due to the fact that there were members who were still very attached to their particular religious denomination, and so a lot of arguments developed because of differences of opinion.  We then joined another house church about a year later, but this church lasted only about a year, because there was not enough structure to hold it together!  So it seems that the "grassroots" house churches sometimes fail for lack of structure, while the institutional churches oppress the individual with too much structure.

 But for me, the house church is still the format which feels best to me, and I still yearn for it, or for a small fellowship/prayer group.  The Catholic charismatics used to have something close to what I am thinking of, but they seem to have faded away to a large extent.

Janet

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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Feb-15-10 at 11:56pm | IP Logged Quote Rest and Trust

Hi Janet,
Interesting I was just speaking about this very thing with my daughter a couple nights ago. She is attending a couple different study groups. She mentioned that she finds the fellowship richer and more satisfying in the smaller more intimate group.

Personally I don't think about the whole "don't forsake the gathering together" thing anymore. My heart very much desires to fellowship and thats enough for me. Without any regard for the IC interpretation of that scripture/precept I find that I am free to fellowship with just about anyone I encounter on some level.

Its amazing what avenues we find that the spirit will flow through when we are free to look anywhere and everywhere for HIM...

Grace to you

Joe 
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