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Real Life in Christ
 Shovel Shack : Real Life in Christ
Subject Topic: Born of God and Loving It
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anothr14thefire
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Posted: Nov-27-10 at 12:42pm | IP Logged  

For someone who has basically been on the brink of self-termination for the past 3 months, having lost the one thing that mattered to him, namely his dream - his one hope he had left - I've been thinking a lot about being God's son and how that relates to my life. I'm not worse off than anyone else in my suffering, its just that I've no reason to get up in the morning anymore; no drive nor ambition to do anything. No hope for the future bc everywhere I look, I see the Messiah's finished work negating the very concept of the future, the very concept of stability in this world, the very core of my will, of my desires, of my plans, of my dreams. There's absolutely no point in pursuing them because I'll fail. Period. He has removed me from the platform from which I could carry my will out; he has removed me from the world and put me into another; a better existence, albiet one I cannot see, one that's far, far away. How does that benefit me here, now? 

I'm writing because I find it so odd that everyone else born of God finds it so liberating and freeing and over the years it's brought me more suffering than pleasure...as if I havent had enough torture and torment already.  You can label this a "fleshly" comment, but this seems to be another form of religious cop-out. For Christians its Satan, for us its "the flesh".

Not trying to insult any of you, god forbid; just find it kinda weird that the freedom you so enjoy leaves me bleak and lifeless.

Id like to hear your thoughts, if you have any. Please be respectful. And please no "well what if you're not reborn?" I know what I am.

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Nov-27-10 at 2:06pm | IP Logged  

And yet in spite of your perception of others feeling so free and liberated all the time, and your perceived lack of it, you still get up and live this life everyday? Why is that?

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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anothr14thefire
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Posted: Nov-27-10 at 3:08pm | IP Logged  

@gregoryfl

well to be blunt, there is no reason. the only thing I have to look forward to is getting holiday money from my family so i can buy the new lloyd banks cd. i literally have to grasp at straws t0 stay alive. why remain alive? i figure my life is over anyway, so killing what is already dead is pointless.

the answe$r to your question is: the only things that can keep me alive are things that may take place in THE FUTURE. it was my dreams and desires for the FUTURE that kept me grounded. it was the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life: the need for COMFORT, HOPE FOR BETTER DAYS, & SELF ESTEEM: all good qualities made to appear bad by Peter. i sound like the antichrist talking like this, i apologize.

take a look at what God has done by removing us from the world and putting us into olam haba, making us a new creation. then, look down at your arms and hands then at your surroundings. we are not supposed to be here. but we ARE here, so why is he taking all of these things away from us? why are we 'dying daily'? we NEED these "fleshly" things in order to BE here. living in view of christ will not get me on the bus, plain and simple.



Edited by anothr14thefire on Nov-27-10 at 3:13pm
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Nov-27-10 at 3:34pm | IP Logged  

The olam we are in is precisely what it is supposed to be, like the horizon, hazy and unclear. The olam is only concerned with now, not the future. It is in our mind, in our bodies, that we cry out for a better future, which better thing only exists now. As one who is familiar with our Hebraic heritage, what is the purpose of the sifting of wheat (such as what Satan asked permission to do to Peter), the winnowing of barley, the threshing floor where the grains and stomped upon, and then lastly, the winepress of God's wrath, written of in Revelation? He is not concerned with mere food and drink, but with preparing the food and wine for his banquet. The outer husk and grape pulp and flesh is not what he is interested in, which is why he uses these means to remove it for what is inside. It is there, where the olam chie, our true (yet obscure) life, is revealed out of all that which we so often wish to hold onto and focus on, simply because it is the natural thing to do. I believe that is the reason you continue, for deep down inside he has made you to do so. Those glimpses you have seen and cherished, having written some of them here, will continue to be made more clear, until what you perceive as these wonderful things in the future will be seen as having always been there. We ALL are in the same process my brother. Some are just more open to speak about their doubts and struggles than others. The only thing he is taking away is that which has been taken away in Christ, that which is not of him. And no worries about getting on the bus, for he has made you to be the bus. :)

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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anothr14thefire
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Posted: Nov-27-10 at 6:13pm | IP Logged  

"until what you perceive as these wonderful things in the future will be seen as having always been there"

yes, lloyd bank's album was already on my shelf from the time i was born.

and i've always had a record deal, and have been touring europe and finishing up a highly sophomore anticipated album in a major studio in california, and been having fun being a rock star.

what am i not understanding? how am i just going to say, "oh, yeah, i'm just going to settle for working in retail or some boring office job and just keep my life in christ on my mind" when i can say, "wait, i want MORE for myself...much more"?

and then once i start up a project, i begin to work diligently on it, and start to see what no one else working with me sees: futility --- my latest revelation: how starting from the bottom up is useless, for example. only a hand from the TOP can pull one up from the bottom - Sound familiar? Other than Jesus, Dr. Dre - Eminem ; Eminem - 50 Cent ; Akon - Lady Gaga ; Trent Resnor - Marilyn Manson ; Puff Daddy - Notorious BIG. Most of the pioneers were label executives and producers Akon, Dre, Puff, Reznor, etc before they were artists. Everywhere I go I'm bombarded with the gospel. There's no sense in even trying. Where's the freedom in that? Why is my will put to the side?

Anyways, I'm using my roommate's computer without his permission and he'll be home soon and he'll kill me if he finds out. Thanks for speaking with me ron.



Edited by anothr14thefire on Nov-27-10 at 6:19pm
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Nov-27-10 at 6:42pm | IP Logged  

No problem bro. Just keep remembering that the very fact that you are even giving a damn at all is from another source, not of yourself, but from he who is your source. If I didn't have any glimpse of that, believe me, I would have left my wife and child and probably killed myself long ago.

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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anothr14thefire
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Posted: Nov-28-10 at 5:48pm | IP Logged  

btw, i discovered the answer to how one starts at the top when he's still on the bottom: flip the picture upside down. the gospel yet again. ...

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Nov-28-10 at 7:01pm | IP Logged  

And isn't that what we see throughout history, God doing pretty much the opposite of what logic would dictate. :) Very good point you bring out.

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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the shovel
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Posted: Nov-28-10 at 8:06pm | IP Logged  

anothr14thefire wrote:

btw, i discovered the answer to how one starts at the top when he's still on the bottom: flip the picture upside down. the gospel yet again. ...



Hello, my dear friend, Justin :)

Even in the midst of difficulties, I am still glad to hear from you. I am with you.

Love, Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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Dignz
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Posted: Nov-28-10 at 10:29pm | IP Logged  

 "... just find it kinda weird that the freedom you so enjoy leaves me bleak and lifeless."

perhaps we mistake that which we are convinced leaves us feeling so bleak and lifeless?  perhaps it is not the freedom that can only be found in christ that leaves us feeling so bleak and lifeless.  perhaps it is merely lacking what we are so convinced will fulfill us and make us happy while in this world that leaves us feeling so badly.  there is nothing necessarily 'right or wrong' with 'having' and/or 'experiencing' what we would certainly like to have and experience while in this world.  perhaps tho' we will always be disappointed when we equate it to be our value and worth, especially when we no longer have it or experience it after having it and experiencing it, if you know what i mean? 

i deal with those thoughts and feelings daily, and sometimes MANY times concerning numerous things daily, from one moment to the next.  gee, often times they can all bleed into one another ... all the things that i can so easily be convinced will make me happier and more fulfilled in my life experience.

i experience far more often than i would like to, the loss of various hopes, dreams, experiences, druthers and dot, dot, dot ... fill in the blanks, ya know?  i don't think any of us are alone in those 'common to man' issues in life.  they are each and all as unique and important to us as the unique individuals we each and all are.  if we are honest about it, we can all relate with you and one another in that, justin. 

"He has removed me from the platform from which I could carry my will out ..."


perhaps we mistake what our will is?  perhaps his will and our will is being revealed as what it truly is ... one united will ... 'our will' being that 'will' that has been swallowed up by and in 'his will'.  perhaps even better than transformed, exchanged or replaced  .... just as all our past, present, and future has also been swallowed up in the eternal now that he has miraculously birthed us into ... himself.  our life ... our true life ... hidden with god in christ jesus.

too ethereal?  i think better than that ... miraculous.

i dunno ... i can't really 'explain' it.  and i guess that isn't really helpful at all, is it?  yet ... perhaps his spirit witnesses within us of those things that are more real than human words can express sometimes? 

my heart is with you in your heart's pain and suffering, justin.  it is good to hear from you again.  and a relief.  have not known how to contact you.  are you allowed old fashioned 'snail mail' where you are?  are you open to that from any of us?  perhaps you could, if you like, contact whoever you would like to hear from in that way.  you could use the private messenger to contact who you would like, give them your address, and then if you lose computer access again, at least you can stay in contact with someone the old fashioned way?  perhaps better than nothing? 

anyway ... for what it is worth ... sending hugs your way ...   

ron ... always enjoy your heart of support and encouragement!      


Edited by Dignz on Nov-29-10 at 11:07am


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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i was just re-thinking ... maybe you are right after all, justin ... perhaps it IS the freedom in christ ... perhaps it is christ himself whom we are coming to know so well that turns our lives upside down, inside out, rocks our boats, and pretty much dumps us out of them.

by a sometimes pretty dramatic process of elimination, and other times a more subtle, gentle process of elimination ... that which we have previously known in the world becomes seen as what it always has been.   in christ we have been made light, and his light which he has made us, shines in the darkness exposing what has been in the darkness all along.  we sometimes see quite clearly and other times only glimpsing through a dark glass of distortion the emptiness of that which the darkness hides.  

in these temporary bodies right now we are the life and light of god living in and through and despite them.  we tend to seek for purpose without realizing that we are purpose ... the purpose of god ... the absolute precious life and purpose of god ... temporarily veiled from the world, and housed in a mortal shell that somehow PLEASES GOD, whether or not it pleases our misunderstood perceptions of what 'should' or 'could' be 'pleasing'. 

ehhhhh  ... i suppose i am just trying too hard ... waxing too philosophical ... it is a weakness of mine, as you have all come to know quite well over the years.    yet i always hope there is something of the miraculous of god that makes its way through despite that weakness.      yeah ... always hoping for the miraculous!  

anyway ... i am more than likely totally missing your heart, justin and i apologize ... again and as usual. 










      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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the shovel
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Posted: Nov-29-10 at 3:16pm | IP Logged  

Sherri, I'm very encouraged by your insights ... especially your honesty in how you express yourself. :)

Jim


Edited by the shovel on Nov-29-10 at 3:17pm


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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Dave S
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Posted: Nov-29-10 at 4:13pm | IP Logged  

Yes. Loved it all Madame S.

For me, it's not the end of my dreams, it's just that they no longer matter. My dreams used to serve a purpose, a fulfillment, so to speak.

But as Sherri said, WE are the purpose,  I find that thrilling.

AND yes, it is so hard to try to explain. So I,ll shut up

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Nov-29-10 at 6:59pm | IP Logged  

Yes, I am so glad you chimed in Sherri. Your an ever present source of encouragement that people can feel comfortable around. I very much enjoyed reading what you shared.

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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Dignz
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"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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dave
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Hey Justin,

It's been a while since I've  posted here but your post Justin really stirred something in me and I had to write.  I pop in every once in a while just to read others thoughts on the Life of Christ.

Justin, I couldn't help but relate to the "feeling" you have about this mystery of being born of God and being a new creation.  I mean, I have never been at the point of despair where I didn't want to live... but I definitely have felt so frustrated and almost upset when trying to understand the Life of Christ.  It just didn't make any sense to me at all... in fact, it still makes no sense at all :-)

But, then again, if it made sense and it was logical then how would it be a mystery?  The more I get to know my Father the more I understand he delights in mystery... He loves confounding the wise and revealing himself to the "foolish".

And that brings me to my advice:

My advice is to forget how it all works.  Don't think about what it means to be a new creation (because trust me, even though you are a smart dude you will NEVER understand it... at least, not the way you think). 

God is a REAL being... focus on Him.  Get to know the BEING.  When you bathe in His love, when you truly taste of His grace, when you marvel at His wisdom, when you tremble at His glory... you will no longer be in despair, you will no longer have trouble getting out of bed... your heart will be so full of joy and gratitude.

It's the KNOWING of Him that is what this mystery is all about.  The knowledge is nothing.  It's the actual KNOWING.  This IS Life. 

My prayer is that God would strip me of my preconcieved notions of "how it works" and how I see Him and just reveal Himself to me in His fullness... I'm so surprised at how He surprises me with His love and His kindness and His character.

Close your eyes and let go of understanding.  Ask God to simply reveal HIMSELF (the real BEING, the real person, the real LIFE) to you.  Ask Him to FILL you with His Life so that it saturates your very being and expresses itself in every area of your life.

I can't make very many promises and I'm still learning more about my Father every day.

But, there is one thing I can definitely promise you.

If you ask Him this HE WILL GIVE IT TO YOU!  He delights in revealing Himself to us.  And you will never be the same again.  You'll never think question your meaning or why you are here.

Thank God I live here and now... thank God for my wife and children.  thank God He has shown me a taste of what is to come.

I'm so thankful!

I love being here.  And yet I long for the "new" world.  I wouldn't trade anything for my life... yet, all the meaning of this life is because of His Life.

I love living.

I'm so thankful for LIFE!

Dave

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dave
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It's really not about all the knowledge of understanding how it works.  None of that can give Life.

It is about Life.  It always has been.

Life gives joy.  Life is full of love.  Life is kind.

It's this Life that Christ has given us freely.  It is this Life that changes everything.

Jesus came to give Life ... period.

It's quite simple really.  We just tend to complicate it.

We can enjoy this Life while in the midst of death.  Death is the backdrop.  Life is the reality.

Dave


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Dignz
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dave ~ so nice to see you again!    and to 'read' you.    love and hugs to you and yours.    i know your family is growing by leaps and bounds, yes?  (i know, i exaggerate a little ... but maybe not too much?  )  

~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ *

the heavy matter of 'despairing of life' ~ it is a really dark, sad and deep place.  there are more than one or two others here on the shovel-shack that have 'been-there' ... some maybe even more often than others, not that there is of course any 'competition' there.  when the heart and mind are overwhelmed in that kind of darkness, it can often take an absolute miracle to pull one up and out of that kind 'place'.  there are times when others may not even be aware of this despair going on when and while it is going on in the other person, and that can sometimes be a scary realization.  and even when someone knows it is going on with the other person, sometimes there simply is no ... talking them out of it, bullying them out of it, buying them out of it, tempting them out of it, scaring them out of it, loving them out of it, drugging them out of it (altho yes, i know that can possibly extend their life while things are attempted to 'work it all out', etc.  no guarantees, of course, but temporary hope at least) ... dot dot dot, fill in the blanks.

it can be a very complicated matter to say the least ... sighhhhh ...

to discover oneself embraced, enveloped and consumed in the heart, mind and love of god is the miracle needed ... and god is the best at revealing that to us, isn't he?   he himself is our hearts desire and our peace of mind. 


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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luvin
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Posted: Nov-30-10 at 12:41pm | IP Logged  

You are a wise[in a living way] woman indeed Sher. I
am not sure I have met anyone quite like you.


I thank God for you.

Adam

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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dave
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It's good to see you Sherri and everyone else.  And yes, my kids are growing so stinkin' fast that at times I feel like I'm in "fast forward" mode.  It wasn't long ago that I was just a kid and now here I am with three of my own.  Crazy!

I agree that often times it is hard to relate to what one is going through.  I hope you are doing well Justin!  Oh and I'm a HUGE believer in dreaming... I think God is a dreamer so don't let go of your dreams.  It's usually us dreamers that go through emotional ups and downs because we don't always see our dreams come to fruition.  Keep dreaming... God has an amazing purpose for you!

Take care,

Dave
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Debi
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What everyone wrote has been so great and helpful!

Sherri all that you wrote was so heartening
and this is MIRACULOUS:

Sherri wrote:
perhaps his will and our will is being revealed as what it truly is ... one united will ... 'our will' being that 'will' that has been swallowed up by and in 'his will'.  perhaps even better than transformed, exchanged or replaced  .... just as all our past, present, and future has also been swallowed up in the eternal now that he has miraculously birthed us into ... himself.  our life ... our true life ... hidden with god in christ jesus.


I love that word-swallowed.

Yes, why do we separate our will from His when we are in union and He is our Life?

Dave that was all so UPLIFTING!!

Dave wrote:
My advice is to forget how it all works.

...yet, all the meaning of this life is because of His Life.

We can enjoy this Life while in the midst of death.  Death is the backdrop.  Life is the reality.


Justin wrote:
There's absolutely no point in pursuing them (dreams) because I'll fail.


For me it's the journey not the destination that is the motivation. Don't give up on dreams-God gives us our dreams and changes or replaces our dreams and eventually we see it's all wrapped up by just being in union with Him and in Him we don't fail.

Justin wrote:
I'm writing because I find it so odd that everyone else born of God finds it so liberating and freeing and over the years it's brought me more suffering than pleasure...


Freedom in Christ allows me to Rest not from ever experiencing feelings of unhappiness or bleakness or depression (which I can relate to as feeling I am just coming out of being depressed for several years and the encouragement I have found from all the people on the shovel has been irreplaceable & so uplifting!); this world can throw so much at us but He has us on this journey for now, expressing His Life in us. And I think we have all had our share of suffering in this world speckled with times of pleasure (often it seems too short.)


Justin wrote:
we NEED these "fleshly" things in order to BE here. living in view of christ will not get me on the bus, plain and simple.


This is so true Ron: "The only thing he is taking away is that which has been taken away in Christ, that which is not of him. And no worries about getting on the bus, for he has made you to be the bus. :)"

We have needs for our body like eating, shelter and emotional needs, but to me "fleshly" needs are things I think I need when I view myself outside or separate from God and am looking to the world or worldly things to meet my needs. I need to be reminded all my needs are now met in Him even when it doesn't "feel" like it.



Edited by Debi on Dec-03-10 at 2:22am


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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the shovel
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Debi,

I am so encouraged by the sharing of your encouragement. :)

Jim


      

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mary
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    Yes, me too! 


      

Mary
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Dignz
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enjoyed those wonderful, nourishing, refreshing words ... support and encouragement!     

      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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anothr14thefire
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Posted: Dec-04-10 at 11:09pm | IP Logged  

Debi wrote:
Don't give up on dreams-God gives us our dreams and changes or replaces our dreams and eventually we see it's all wrapped up by just being in union with Him and in Him we don't fail.

...Okay...so I'll just...start... making up...plans.. for myself ...KNOWING full well that...god's just ...gonna... ... change them?...
and... i shouldn't...give up...on... that.
wow. deep.

"Christ has come to free this imprisoned will, not to subdue it"
-Jim

"The reality of Christ is not a contest of wills where one must give into the other. In truth, the will of man has already given into deception, and as such has had its will forced into bondage."
-Jim

"The Borg became the greatest threat to every humanoid in the galaxy as they stole their wills and forced them to serve the collective. It hit me a few years ago that the Borg Collective was probably modeled after the flesh's reaction to Christ as being the greatest enemy to humanity. Let's face it, when really examined according to human wisdom, union in Christ is truly the monster as feared in the Borg, for it crosses all lines in its "assimilation"."
-Jim

All three quotes, same page. Forget a shovel, we need a bulldozer. Forget that the "flesh" is used as a cop-out antagonist figure, an idea that stems directly from Platoism and was most likely used by Paul and John because of the culture of the time [just as the words demon and satan were used back then, not necessarily because they actually existed - which btw does NOT negate the fact that Jesus DID], what I'm seeing here is Debi and this article tell me that He values ME as an individual and yet there is CLEARLY a catch attached to it like the most transparent of fine print, like one of those radio commercials with the guy speaking superfast: ...buuuuuuuuuuuut-he-killed-you-along-with-all-your-desires- and-interests-and-everything-else-that-make-up-who-you-ARE-a nd-he-raised-you-up-three-days-later-without-your-consent-an d-COMPLETELY-replaced-you-with-someone-who-looks-talks-walks -coughs-and-acts-JUST-like-him-in-your-name-so-you're-basica lly-not-who-you-think-you-are-not-at-all-you're-just-like-hi m:-invisible-and-so-freaking-"fulfilled"-he-once-felt-so-ove rwhelmingly-compelled-to-create-humanity-instead-of-just-bas king-in-himself-for-all-eternity .

According to this belief, you're NOT who you think you are, everyone: you're better.
And that's the truly sad part. Don't you get it?

This is almost like Christianity for the anti-Christianity. Jim saved me a hell of a lot back in college by helping me not go insane over the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit thing. But I'm so damn mentally ill I've allowed my head to spin around and around over this website almost as bad as it did back when I was inculcated into Pentacostalism 5 years ago, what with all their hypocritical Law B.S.. I mean, thank GOD for your beliefs and all, they can really help many Christians out of the hellhole that is Xtianity, but there seriously needs to be a parental advisory or some kind of government warning rating attached to all non-secular, non-scholarly Biblically-oriented websites. As far as God, Bill, you're so right what you wrote to me about 3 years ago- what's the point of continuing to come here if the only reason is I because I'm so damn terrified by what's being discussed? I shall leave in peace. Jim Sherry everyone else, thanks for your time, patience, and love. Take care.

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Debi
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Truly sorry that what I wrote terrified you. I was writing from what I have experienced and not trying to be deep.

And no "I don't get it." Sorry.




      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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Nergo
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Great words by all of you to "another14thefire". Brilllant! ... Wonderful words!! My 2 cents to another14: My God!!! ... how God loves you so much!!!  Hang in there, another14 ... read "between the lines" what you actually say. I see it ... Your living is by Grace alone that He supplies. And God has strength that is unknown to you but HE will provide it to you. It's coming!!!!        &n bsp; 
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Broken Link
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This is what I see that always causes
issues/consternation; trying to find the separation.
Where do we draw the line? What is ours and what is
God's? That is what Chruchianity does all the time.
"This is godly, that is sin."

If we are supposed to be better than we are right
now, how is it any different from the chruch? The
implication is that in the future we will be more
acceptable than we are now. How subtle an
insinuation it is that God will change us so he can
accept us. We are already accepted, and the only
change is seeing that you are accepted; accepting
the miracle for what it is, a miracle.

The truth doesn't change how we behave to make us
better than we are, more acceptable than we are. How
can we add to this having more than we need to be
acceptable in order to be accepted even more in the
future? We can't possibly have more of Christ later
than we do right now. The transformation isn't some
process in which we are transmogrified through our
acquiescence to allow changes in our behavior.
Christ has already been working in us. We can't
choose which parts of it are his and which are ours;
that is the lie of separation, "This is godly, that
is sin."




      

Bill
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mcdave
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Bill said "We are already accepted, and the only
change is seeing that you are accepted; accepting
the miracle for what it is, a miracle. "

I say "Shack Quote"

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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mcdave
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Just read the previous(Bills entire post) to Mary who
is sewing on the couch next to me.HER quote?

Edited by mcdave on Dec-05-10 at 5:31pm


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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mcdave
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That seems to be the rub,if we don't see the finality and finished aspect of what Christ has done we enter into a never ending and frustratingly futile comparison of where we think we are in relation to God.The reality being that as Bill so eloquently stated that we can not nor do we need to get any better to be fully accepted by God, nor because of our behavior will we become any LESS acceptable to God.
     The life we live in our physical bodies is made possible by simple faith and the knowledge that "while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!" 

Edited by mcdave on Dec-05-10 at 5:30pm


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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mary
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Mary
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mary
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   There's so much encouragement throughout this thread, from my own perspective it's impossible not to see it.  We're sharing here of what speaks of the life of Christ, of what is consistent in the midst of all disappointments.  I don't see divisions anymore of what would be considered 'my' desires or 'His' anymore.  I've had my share of disappointments and 'rejections' in the area of artist/creative endeavors in life.  The nature of that arena is very competitive, and the vulnerabilities that we have in the giving of 'that' part of ourselves within it can be very discouraging.  It doesn't however change the value of who we are, or of the beauty of the 'gift'  for it's been given to us by God Himself, and is an expression of the person we are within.  I think it's a GOOD thing/ a common sense thing to have a trade or career as we move through time on the planet.  'Boring' as I'm sure it can be,  its an avenue for provision. 

  The hope we have in Christ speaks consistently and persistently of the immeasure -ability of God's wonderful Love toward us in the midst of 'this' worlds rejection of us, of the things that are our weakness;  of the soul that wants above all else to know that we are valuable to Him irregardless of what we, ourselves, or the 'world' perceives as a condition for our success or failure.


Edited by mary on Dec-06-10 at 12:41pm


      

Mary
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Dignz
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WOW ~     ~  i agree ... the replies have been very encouraging and uplifting to me, as well!     perhaps one day soon enough they may prove to be encouraging to you as well, justin ... and ... maybe not.  the former is certainly my hope and prayer.    

in the mean time, i hope that your heart and mind will discover what is truly needed ... that which, from your current perspective, is missing in our written communications with you.  god knows even better than ourselves what that is, where, how, etc. 

what we know in him is that everything we are in reality is summed up in Christ ... always and forever in the eternal now Who He Is and we ARE.    i have come to realize that my own personal experience with searching for the ever elusive 'good' self-esteem has been swallowed-up and left satisfied by the completely worthy, value-above-all-value esteem of christ himself ... forever embraced, secure and safe in and by the very heart, mind and spirit of god himself.  there is love, peace, security and hope there. 

my heart and hope is FOR you, justin. 


Edited by Dignz on Dec-06-10 at 1:09pm


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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mary
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     Yes! 


      

Mary
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Debi
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Bill I totally agree-no separation: Christ has already been working in us. We can't choose which parts of it are his and which are ours; that is the lie of separation, "This is godly, that is sin."

Yes Sherri: what we know in him is that everything we are in reality is summed up in Christ ... always and forever in the eternal now Who He Is and we ARE. 

I spent so many years trying to figure "things" out. I don't have it all figured out, nor do I need to, nor will I be able to. Now I can REST and all that thinking/fretting/worrying/fear has been replace with an overwhelming sense of acceptance, love and peace. The only answer is Christ and He will reveal Himself differently to each of us. I love that He is our counselor and we can only proclaim this to others and He will cause us to "see".

Justin, I also hope you will find the encouragement you need. Again, sorry if my feeble attempt discouraged you; sometimes words don't convey what we really mean or they seem trite.

btw-didn't mean to imply there is any "catch" in being in Christ-I certainly don't believe that.


Edited by Debi on Dec-06-10 at 8:03pm


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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Dignz
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Wonderful thoughts, Linc and jewels of great price beyond measure!!       (i don't know why, but i can't seem to stop addressing you that way.   however, Bill ... if you do not like it, please say so and i will discipline myself to NOT ... just know that i address you that way with great sisterly affection and appreciation.)    for those of you who do not wish to read through all my blathering below in green, yet you are curious as to what it is all about, you can skip ahhhhhhll the way down to the bottom and just read the summation from FOUR LITTLE WORDS. 

"Where do we draw the line? What is ours and what is
God's?"  <Linc (Bill) 
it is wonderful and freeing isn't it, to know that Christ is the end of the line/s for us!?     all that is ours is his and all that is his is ours.  we are 'sharers' together in Christ, with him and because of him.  the most wonderful point of all is that we are god's and HE IS ours, and NOTHING separates us!  it is a miracle of immeasurable godly proportion!!   

"The
implication is that in the future we will be more acceptable than we are now."  <Linc

and that is the saddest thing of all.  it is what breeds and perpetuates the ingrained and very much conditioned internal insecurity that drains us of all peace, confidence and assurance that is ours in Christ, supplied in all abundance of LIBERTY ... that liberty provided by and purchased with the most precious and miraculous of price, the sacrifice of Jesus Himself, Who set the captives free!
 

"How subtle an
insinuation it is that God will change us so he can accept us."  <Linc

absolutely!  subtle indeed, and so subtle that we have need to remind one another from time to time by going back to our beginning and source ~ what made us acceptable in the first place?  well, i will re-phrase that and say 'WHO' has made us acceptable, and how?
  worldly wisdom convinces us that we can be made acceptable by the discipline of the flesh and the mind of religious and/or superstitious wisdom lives and entire lifetimes are spent endlessly seeking and striving to prove it ... all the way to the grave.  the miracle of god is missed.  the blind are blind, until sight is given. 

"We are already accepted, and the only
change is seeing that you are accepted; accepting the miracle for what it is, a miracle." <linc

it is sad that the 'miraculous' has been so watered down over the centuries now to not mean much anymore.  only that which GOD performs is miraculous.  the world uses the term too loosely anymore and more often than not it has NOTHING to do with GOD at all.  so it is no surprise concerning its lack of any WOW and appreciation anymore.  sighhh ...

doesn't it blow your mind sometimes to think how far away we get from the miraculous simplicity of it all by the influencing of the mind of MIS-perception?  (hey, does that qualify as an oxymoron - simple miracle?)    sometimes we think we want and expect something that will satisfy the mind and imagination of the world's wisdom.  we want and expect "... something more grand!  less fuzzy!"  - to quote again from a favorite movie - WILLOW.    (you will just have to watch it and experience it for yourself to see what i mean when i use that little phrase.     a little hint: it has to do with disappointment from unrealistic expectations and overlooking reality.) 

"The truth doesn't change how we behave to make us
better than we are, more acceptable than we are."  <Linc

yes!  that is so true isn't it!  the wisdom of the world convinces us that the truth should be better than it is, and that it should therefore make us better than we appear to the mind and anti-sight of the world
. (did you like that?  'anti-sight'?  huh huh?  yes?    my dorky-nerd tendencies can come out to play from time to time.)     anyway, playtime aside, we can expect that aforementioned mentality from the mind of the world.  it is in bondage to that mind and can not 'see' otherwise.  however, WE have NOT so learned CHRIST!  THANK GOD!!  worldly wisdom completely misses that the TRUTH is a PERSON.  JESUS CHRIST is the TRUTH, and they didn't see God or believe God when He was in the flesh, very much tangible right in front of their faces, under their noses, able to be touched, walking, breathing and living amongst them.  they very much expected something more grand, less fuzzy.  is it weird to think that it was a miracle that they could NOT believe the miracles happening right in front of them?  it seems to me that God uses the contrast as a picture of sorts.   ??       

"How
can we add to this having more than we need to be acceptable in order to be accepted even more in the future?"  <Linc

ehhhhxactly!    
it is bogus, of course.  we fall for the deception based on the lie that we do not have enough ... that we are 'lacking' ... and that we simply have NOT been made acceptable enough to God, and that is basically saying without coming right out and saying it, that God failed in Jesus Christ, and therefore He has failed in us, and we must continually strive to complete and finish where They left off and failed, as if They really did and could fail, and as if we could make up for Their failure, etc.  it is all BOGUS and ridiculous, of course!  we just have need to remind one another that it is.   

"We can't possibly have more of Christ later
than we do right now."   <Linc 

and i sooo thank GOD for that!  being convinced otherwise causes us to miss out on enjoying and appreciating who we are in Christ in the eternal NOW, which has the effect of causing us to feel always lacking, unfulfilled, incomplete and needing to reach for the ever-elusive 'more' until we reach the eternal THEN, if you know what i mean? 

"Christ has already been working in us. We can't
choose which parts of it are his and which are ours;  ..."   <Linc 

along with everything you shared, Bill, that also brings so much joy and peace to my heart and mind this morning, as it did yesterday when i read it, and i suspect it will bring so much joy and peace to my heart any and every time i read it!    thank you!    

"... that is the lie of separation."  <Linc


hey, we can call it:  'separation-theology-of-another-kind'.
 

WHOA!  this is embarrassingly long.      i said all that in way of support to you in what you shared, Bill and to let you know how much i appreciate it all and you and how you took the time and energy to share it with us ... how much i enjoyed it and was, obviously very inspired by it.    i recognize it to be true health, nourishment, therapy and healing to the BODY that is suffering such mental and heart pain/aches.  i always sooooo enjoy when that which is shared proves to be that which the BODY truly NEEDS and can benefit from.  

so anyway ... to sum it all up in just FOUR LITTLE WORDS ---> i - thank - you - again!
 




Edited by Dignz on Dec-07-10 at 11:01am


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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the shovel
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Posted: Dec-08-10 at 3:36am | IP Logged  

Hello Sharon Dawn! :)

Though I haven't finished reading this yet (because of the other things demanding my attention yesterday) I have so far found it an incredibly encouraging commentary based on Bill's statements. Thank you for taking the time to write it, as I can only imagine how much of your daily schedule was eaten up by it.

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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Dignz
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hey babe!  a 'commentary' huh?    i was just SOOOO inspired by bill's post!  sooo encouraged!  

thank you for appreciating me and my time.     i know time seems to be rather COMPRESSED lately.      or is it rather that time is compressing us???         that is certainly more of what it feels like! 

    


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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freenglad
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Posted: Dec-08-10 at 11:30pm | IP Logged  

Bill,

Love what you wrote! That's why I don't think about it anymore... growing, changing my oh-so-many imperfections, etc. If God says I'm good enough through Christ then who am I to find fault? It was a struggle enough coming to accept His acceptance!!

I was talking to my husband the other day about how people look at my exterior and don't think of me as being any kind of example of a christian. Yet, I can experience that connection I have with God, this real, alive relationship any time I want... like breathing. It's natural. And when I'm not experiencing it, the relationship is still there... unchanging. I never have to doubt my relationship with Him because it's not based in who I am but based in who He is. My husband said how so many people struggle with that and wish to have it.

You already have it!! It's right THERE!

 

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anothr14thefire
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Posted: Jun-12-11 at 10:52pm | IP Logged  

well thanks for bearing with my comments of rage and depression and i'm glad people got so much out of the thread|
i feel the need to apologize to everyone for them them
but i'm sure you've all felt just as bewildered as i have when it comes to these things
although a mental disorder atop these things does make things far worse, so please forgive me

i am back after all these months simply because every avenue i take the truth eventually meets me there
whether it be the futility of the world system, the confidence of the flesh, or lately, the FACT that
i have "ALL things" [even though i can't see them or feel them]

...now, lets take a look at that last one: i've just come to terms with the seemingly-sad yet extremely mindblowing fact that my elaborate grandiose dreams of riches and wealth is made void and null when i was hit, and i wont go into detail by HOW, with the realization that i already HAVE all of them. again i cant reveal how i came to this understanding, just that i know for a fact that there is no possible way that i DONT have everything i possibly ever want or desire ALREADY through and because of jesus christ.

so this kind of leaves me in a very weird and vulnerable place right now: what to do? how to live? stupid questions "of the flesh" but for someone who used to dwell full-time in the future to pay attention to something so trivial and boring as the plain mundane 'now', these questions seem very real and big.

weird place i'm in. radical acceptance.



Edited by anothr14thefire on Jun-12-11 at 10:54pm
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luvin
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pretty neat to hear you share this brother.


Adam

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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the shovel
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Justin,

I am so glad to hear from you again! It does my heart good. :)

All of us are in a weird place, for we are strangers, aliens to this world in which we live. I suspect that most of our problems are somehow connected to our futile hopes that the weirdness will just go away.

Jim


      

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Dignz
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hugs to you justin   

so good to hear from you ... i love that you re-connect with us on the shack. 

i hear ya about the 'weirdness'.  it is at those times when we feel that 'weirdness' so strongly that we once again realize our 'condition' of truly being 'aliens-passing-through' in this world.  it feels kind of 'disorienting' sometimes, doesn't it? 

i realize that may seem a bit more of a challenge to decipher sometimes when you toss in the mental illness challenges which already can make you feel alienated amongst the 'normal' ... but i know his spirit which has given you his life knows and reveals the difference to you just as he does all who are in christ.  he is truly the leveler of the playing field so-to-speak.  all who are found in him and by him are and have been made equal in him, by him - no exceptions. 

anyway ... the usual sherri blather ... i will quit now ... but it is so good to hear from you justin! 






      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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mary
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   Love ya, Justin.  Good to see you again!


      

Mary
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HarryTick
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Posted: Jun-14-11 at 8:07am | IP Logged  

Justin,

Sometimes I wonder if the whole human race doesn't suffer from mental disorders. Perhaps the only difference between us is the duration we experience the disorders. I was labeled with Adjustment Disorder when I returned from Afghanistan and raised my hand to get some counseling. So, I am kind of thinking that in some ways psychiatrists and psychologists have some sort of racket where they just tack "disorder" onto any sort of situation.

Seriously, I know that people have issues; from chemical imbalances to brain development issues to dealing with stress in situations. I think it highlights that there are those situations where we just aren't expected to go through them alone.



      

Love,
Bill
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mary
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   Yes! 


Edited by mary on Jun-14-11 at 1:07pm


      

Mary
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Broken Link
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"sherri blather"

The source of many discussions and quotes!

      

Bill
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Dignz
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Posted: Jun-17-11 at 4:02pm | IP Logged  

  well ... some-times.  




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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