Surfing on life banner
The ShovelShack Archives
Between January 2002 and December 2011, almost 46,000 posts were created by members of the Shovel Shack discussion group.
In 2012, the Shovel Shack moved to a new home: shovelshack.org. Shovelshack.net will be kept intact as an archive for those amazing discussions.

Browse a bit and then join us at ShovelShack.org

The Stuff of Grace
 Shovel Shack : The Stuff of Grace
Subject Topic: What does it mean ...
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Dignz
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Jul-18-06
Location: United States
Posts: 1816
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 12:08pm | IP Logged  

"IT IS FINISHED"

I was thinking about how most of 'christian-dom' does not even know what that means.  If they did, then there would not be the misunderstanding that there is concerning 1 John 1:9, and ... well ... a whole lot of other things as well. 

Carl gave a link that I would like to transfer here as well, for anyone who may be interested. 

http://theshovel.net/1-john-1-9-and-confession -

hmmm - well i don't know how to make it a 'live' link.  i guess you will have to just type it in to get to it.  sorry ...   maybe someone else can put the live link in for us???

In the mean time, maybe there could be a little discussion as to what "IT IS FINISHED" actually means.  It is something that I think a lot of us may take for granted, forgetting that we too once had a very anemic and misunderstood impression as to what that means for us.

Just consider it a little 're-visitation' or ... something like that. 




Edited by Dignz on Aug-19-10 at 12:11pm


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
Back to Top
 
luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 12:47pm | IP Logged  

Sherri,

I am SO glad you brought this topic up. It is something that has been on my heart lately.[imagine the coincidence?] I have thought lately that my own personal objections to what ever it means to have been declared as "finished", has been mostly the fleshly mind that has made various objections to it, just like in the book of Romans.["What shall we say then?"] I find that the moment I begin to relax and AGREE in my heart that it is finished that, I begin to hear some very  intelligent sounding objections kicking on the leg of my chair! Usually though they come out in the form of either "making light of sin" and or maybe like "did God really mean or say THAT?".."how do YOU know?". Or "what if you[your perception] are incorrect about how FREE you actually are"? "What if He meant only your PAST sins? You know it does say in the book of " etc..etc..you know the drill. I am glad to see you pick this topic. I look forward to what you have to say..or Jim or anyone.

much love!

Adam


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
Back to Top
 
Engineer
Digger
Digger


Joined: Jun-11-10
Location: United States
Posts: 21
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 1:20pm | IP Logged  

http://theshovel.net/1-john-1-9-and-confession

 

Back to Top
 
Dignz
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Jul-18-06
Location: United States
Posts: 1816
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 3:27pm | IP Logged  

no time right now adam, but ... carl, thank you for the link!  i was hoping either you or the shovel could step up and help me out.  

i will get back to this when i can.  but in the mean time, i would really like to hear what anyone and everyone else has to share.   



on my way out the door ... c'ya later.

 

      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
Back to Top
 
Engineer
Digger
Digger


Joined: Jun-11-10
Location: United States
Posts: 21
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 5:21pm | IP Logged  

It is finished, the plan that was laid out before the foundations of the world were laid, is finished.  I think that God had a plan before even creating this world.  The pinnacle of the plan was the work that Jesus Christ would accomplish on the cross.  It was the only work that really even matters, the work of reconciling those God had choosen to himself.  It was something that only he could do because there is no way that we could save ourselves. 

At the sermon on the mount Jesus shattered the illusion that we could be righteous within ourselves according to the law.  The first laws seemed straightforward to keep, but once even thinking it in your heart was an offense all hope was lost.  But he became our hope!   Christ in you the hope of glory!  Only though him, by his righteousness is there any hope!

When man lost his innocence he could tell good from evil, but only according to the flesh.  The fleshly scale of good is not Gods scale of righteousness.  The lie of the devil is that we can be good within ourselves.  The devil loves to tell you that your good enough, I mean look at what you just did for that person in need and perfect attendance at church to top it off!  IMO this is how we become "like god" judging everything for ourselves.  Then we add a little 1 John 1:9 for the times we don't judge ourselves to be righteous, and we are set.  Good most of the time and we can just hang Jesus back on the cross to do some more work for us when WE decide we have screwed up.  This fleshly way of operation does not allow for "It is finished".

IT IS FINISHED, Jesus is not on and will never return to that cross!  Our flesh cannot produce righteousness for God.  Righteousness is only produced by Christ.  Be bold in knowing this.  Be bold in knowing how weak I am.  I am a child capable of nothing, powerless on my own.  This is where I am in coming to God.  Christ in me is everything, my only hope.

With this hope, with his life, the only real life within you, you are free, free indeed. 

So where do we go from here Adam?  Sure I flip on the radio and catch someone spewing their hell and brimstone.  Then follow their logical conclusion that I must do more be better yada, yada.  To what end?  For what righteousness?  Where is the hope in my own righteousness?  I have proven a thousand times over that I can't keep the law.  (I might have missed some zeros there)  That is why I came to Christ, because I couldn't keep the law.

When I have doubts I look to where those doubts lead.  If someones interpretation of scriptures seems to say that I am in trouble, I look at how that squares with what I KNOW to be true, I can do nothing and it is HIS work and It is finished!

Oh my, I got carried away.  Just my $.02.

 


 

Back to Top
 
the shovel
Shackmeister
Shackmeister


Joined: Oct-01-01
Location: United States
Posts: 4187
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 8:10pm | IP Logged  

And I appreciate your two-cents worth, though I think you highly undervalued your post.    

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
Back to Top
 
Debi
Digger
Digger


Joined: Apr-15-10
Location: United States
Posts: 97
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 9:00pm | IP Logged  

It can't be said better than this (one of my favorites):

http://theshovel.net/spoonful/1999/what-if-it-is-really-fini shed

Carl, I enjoyed your post. Yes, the religious/fleshy mind just can't accept it is finished because the flesh wants to do something and so there is no rest for them. And how wonderful to be delivered from that mind thru death and given a new mind and enter into His rest!!


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
Back to Top
 
Dignz
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Jul-18-06
Location: United States
Posts: 1816
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 10:28pm | IP Logged  

yes, enjoyed that, too carl.    i just now got back home.  it is late and i am soooo DONE with this day!           

and hi deb!    hey thanks for that link.  i will do ya one better and just post the WHOLE thing here.    howz that?    it is pretty awesome and i am so glad that you found it and shared it here!  :)


What if it is really finished?
  ~  Posted Fri, 02/26/1999 by the shovel

"It is finished!"  

This is the central-most feature of what is called Christianity and yet it is called into question by many who own the name "Christian". Don't you find that just a little strange? So, do you believe it? Well, consider these questions and ask yourself if maybe you have been brainwashed into doubting this reality. After all, if it was really finished ...

* He might have really paid the price for our sins
* He might have really taken them away
* He might not ever have to do it again

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* He might not be shocked at how bad we have been
* He might not be shocked by things we still do
* He might not be shocked when He discovers our "secret sins"
* He might not be shocked by our impure motives
* He might not be shocked at the messes we get ourselves into
* He might not be shocked when we run from Him
* He might not be shocked at how people can mistreat Him

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* He might not look at us as if He didn't finish His job
* He might not look at us as if we need to finish His job
* He might not look at us as if we need to pay for our own sins
* He might not look at us as ungrateful
* He might not look at us as unforgiven
* He might not look at us as unworthy
* He might not look at us as unclean
* He might not look at us as unholy
* He might not even look at us as sinners
* God just might have believed Him
* God just might have accepted His sacrifice
* God just might not remember any sins against us
* God just might not be mad at us anymore
* God just might not look at us the way we look at us
* God just might see us as the new creations He made us

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* We might really be forgiven
* We might really be acceptable to God
* We might really be worthy
* We might really be holy
* We might really be made right
* We might really be loved
* We might really be brand new
* We might really be free

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* We might not have to be afraid of judgment
* We might not have to be afraid of God
* We might not have to be afraid of the hammer falling
* We might not have to be afraid of death
* We might not have to be afraid of life
* We might not have to be afraid of failure
* We might not have to be afraid of anything

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* We might not need to do anything to receive the gift of God
* We might not need to bring about righteousness in our life
* We might not need to focus on our sins
* We might not need to focus on our failures
* We might not need to ask God for forgiveness

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* We might be called justified
* We might be called righteous
* We might be called holy
* We might be called pure
* We might be called saints

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* We might stop begging God to forgive us
* We might stop thinking God doesn't love us
* We might stop thinking God doesn't care
* We might stop trying get what God has already given us
* We might stop trying to make ourselves more acceptable
* We might stop acting like the people we used to be
* We might stop living like nothing has happened
* We might stop calling ourselves what He no longer does

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

* Christianity might be different than the pathetic substitute we've gotten used to
* Christianity might be as good as the Bible says it is
* Christianity might be as good as you have hoped it was

* ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ * ~:~ *

But then again maybe religion is right, and "It is finished!" does not really mean it is finished.

In that case ... ignore all the above.

Or else simply believe what your heart has been hearing.

nighty night ....     


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
Back to Top
 
luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 10:36pm | IP Logged  

My personal favorite in the line up is:

"We might stop living like nothing has happened"

I LOVE that one Jimbo!


Adam

PS: Thanks Sher for posting it![oh and Deb too!] Oh and thanks Carl for sharing your heart on the righteousness of The One![I love to hear that others walk in the truth.]


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
Back to Top
 
csnarnia
Extreme Digger
Extreme Digger


Joined: May-25-05
Location: United States
Posts: 189
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 10:47pm | IP Logged  

For the believer...everything....leads me to Christ.
Back to Top
 
luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Aug-19-10 at 11:26pm | IP Logged  

http://ojgraham.com/images/3333b.jpg

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
Back to Top
 
mary
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Mar-03-02
Location: United States
Posts: 1942
Posted: Aug-20-10 at 7:13am | IP Logged  


   I also enjoyed this.   Carl,  I found your post simply edifying and encouraging, and also enjoyed reading Jim's, "It is finished!" again.  Thank you all so much!

   


      

Mary
Back to Top
 
luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Aug-20-10 at 9:32am | IP Logged  

Hi Mary.

My pic above is a neat hand drawn picture of the Israelites camp in the desert while traveling to the promised land...thought it was pretty cool. It was something I noticed while reading Numbers and Deuteronomy last night. Unfortunately I got too tired to post anything about my pic!

I was going to write something but, couldn't finish the job! But I intend to come back to it!

Adam


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
Back to Top
 
mary
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Mar-03-02
Location: United States
Posts: 1942
Posted: Aug-20-10 at 11:34am | IP Logged  


   okee dokee, brother.   But my first thought in your posting the pic was "How did you do that?!"  lol


      

Mary
Back to Top
 
Engineer
Digger
Digger


Joined: Jun-11-10
Location: United States
Posts: 21
Posted: Aug-20-10 at 11:52am | IP Logged  

http://theshovel.net/spoonful/1999/what-if-it-is-really-fini shed

Wow! Simply amazing!

Back to Top
 
the shovel
Shackmeister
Shackmeister


Joined: Oct-01-01
Location: United States
Posts: 4187
Posted: Aug-20-10 at 5:18pm | IP Logged  

Engineer wrote:

http://theshovel.net/spoonful/1999/what-if-it-is-really-fini shed

Wow! Simply amazing!



I am so encouraged that some of my earlier writings still speak to the heart. :)  Thanks

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
Back to Top
 
Debi
Digger
Digger


Joined: Apr-15-10
Location: United States
Posts: 97
Posted: Aug-21-10 at 2:20pm | IP Logged  

Hey Sherri, good idea.

Yes Jim, they still speak to the heart!!

Here are two other "what ifs" that are great:

http://theshovel.net/spoonful/2007/what-if-we-were-really-de ad-to-sin

http://theshovel.net/spoonful/1999/what-if-god-is-really-in- us




      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
Back to Top
 
Debi
Digger
Digger


Joined: Apr-15-10
Location: United States
Posts: 97
Posted: Aug-21-10 at 2:37pm | IP Logged  

Out of curiosity, I typed "it is finished" into google search.

One of the top links that come up, the writer says that the term "it is finished" is one of the most misunderstood, misappropriated and misapplied phrases, and that believers will believe that Jesus accomplished a work that made it unnecessary for us to live holy lives and will give us a false peace.
Why? Because we still have responsibilities to live holy lives.

It's wonderful to have been freed from this error and know that everything we are and have in Christ is because it is finished and we can have true peace and rest!

And like you said Sherri, not something we ever want to take for granted.


Edited by Debi on Aug-22-10 at 12:18am


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
Back to Top
 
Dignz
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Jul-18-06
Location: United States
Posts: 1816
Posted: Aug-22-10 at 9:47am | IP Logged  

debi ~ here here and cheers!!  

"It's wonderful to have been freed from this error and know that everything we are and have in Christ is because it is finished and we can have true peace and rest!"

a few quick thoughts:   there is definitely that misunderstood and false interpretation of what makes one holy in the first place.  it is not popularly 'acceptable' to believe that one lives holy because they have been made holy.  it is not commonly understood that we can not make ourselves holy by 'living' or 'performing' holiness.  perhaps that is not what they were getting at in that definition mentioned earlier, i dunno ... but i can leave room for the benefit of the doubt.  there are just as many interpretations and perceptions of what 'living a holy life' is and/or should be as there are interpretations and perceptions of just about anything else in life projected onto christ and those who are his. 

i think the common problem with the issue of 'responsibly living holy' is that it is defined and understood from the world's perspective and interpretation, and therefore the consequent means and ways of getting people to do that, to live that, to perform that.  the best they can come up with is to use fear, guilt and shame, thereby creating a 'holy-living' that is merely a fleshly manipulation and breeds insincerity and insecurity ... not of or by or with the miraculous living heart of holiness, but instead a heart controlled by fear, guilt and shame, duty, debt, etc.  oh sure, that 'control' can make life function more 'conveniently' and less 'messy' ...  it can get people to do what others want them to do.  that is the world's game, and it can be played without christ. 

but ... we have not so learned him by him, from him, etc.

so just as you were saying, deb ~ only those made holy live holy because they are holy.  it is a life that is defined by him who made it so. 

   




Edited by Dignz on Aug-23-10 at 12:35am


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
Back to Top
 
luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Aug-23-10 at 9:24am | IP Logged  

One thing the Lord impressed within me a very long time ago was that  there was something more than the usual descriptions of Love from Paul in Corinthians. One of the things he said was that "Love always trusts"> I know, I know sounds very poetic, pretty, makes a great framed picture or a lovely Hallmark card but, I don't think that was what Paul was going for. Ask yourself : "WHO or WHAT in the world would GOD trust?" Especially knowing He said "apart from ME you can do nothing?" I submit He trusts Himself, His Spirit within US. ALWAYS. The flesh can never TRULY trust for it is as fleeting as the next failure. God always trusts, for He sees everything according to [His] reality..

Man DOES NOT trust the living Spirit. He wants to jump in [just like Abe and Sara]and attempt to fix and solve the things that are only able to flow from God. He is constantly submerged in attempting to do what only the miraculous can do and not only that he is ALWAYS engaged in interpreting things according to man that are only  understood within the realm of God. Once I was blind, but now I see.


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
Back to Top
 
mary
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Mar-03-02
Location: United States
Posts: 1942
Posted: Aug-23-10 at 12:35pm | IP Logged  


   


Edited by mary on Aug-23-10 at 1:49pm


      

Mary
Back to Top
 
Debi
Digger
Digger


Joined: Apr-15-10
Location: United States
Posts: 97
Posted: Aug-24-10 at 5:04pm | IP Logged  

That was great Adam.

This is so true:
Adam wrote:
Man DOES NOT trust the living Spirit.


So therefore, natural man has to live by rules, guidelines, principles, morality or even the Bible (all from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and judges everything according to the flesh.


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
Back to Top
 
the shovel
Shackmeister
Shackmeister


Joined: Oct-01-01
Location: United States
Posts: 4187
Posted: Aug-24-10 at 8:08pm | IP Logged  

Excellent assessment! :)

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
Back to Top
 

 



the shovel home page