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The Stuff of Grace
 Shovel Shack : The Stuff of Grace
Subject Topic: Kicked out of Pastors.COM
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KevinKim
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Joined: May-07-04
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Posted: Jun-18-05 at 7:20pm | IP Logged  

I was kicked out of pastors.com...I'm assuming this because my
access is denied and I can't even read a post that I started a few
days ago...which eventually led to a heated debate. Funny thing
is..I was never heated.

I am pretty sure I am banned though..since the moderator called
me a self justifying junkie, told me I'm garbage and told me to
move to Morrocco if I didn't want to live within the " fence".....word
for word I am not joking!

here's the link..

http://forums2.pastors.com/forum/messageview.cfm?
catid=22&threadid=24863&enterthread=y

You guys should check this out and maybe drop a comment
because honestly..I have no idea why there is so much hostility. I
wanted to discuss and ask questions..not to fight. My butt kind of
hurts for being kicked :(

perhaps its righteous indignation?

peace!
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mcdave
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Posted: Jun-19-05 at 10:28am | IP Logged  

Hi Kevin,

That link didn't work but i went over and poked around pastors.com and like so much other "churchianity" reading the various topics gave me a headache
     like any institution most of the conversation goes to feeding the beast instead of the creator.i know these folks are sincere but they sure didn't seem open.one post i saw had a guy commenting on being more open and he was cut down right away as NOT being open .oh well.if you can get the link to work i'll sure take a look but to me the main difficulty the ic has is they have forgotten their first love Christ as their hope of glory.

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 12:34pm | IP Logged  

http://forums2.pastors.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&am p;threadid=24863&enterthread=y

 

I think you have to login to read the post.

If you can't find it...look inside the pastors forum for "open forum"...then in there..loook for the post that reads "Why Can't We Be Imperfect" by Kevin Kim.

 

 

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mcdave
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 2:27pm | IP Logged  

Kevin,

I haven't read all the replies yet as i am at work and don't have time but
wanted to say i thought your opening post was excellent and
insightful.the Lord is giving you lots of wisdom in the short time (2 years
you said?) you have known him.i'll post a bit more after i see the
responses but have an idea my thinking will be along the line of "The
Emperor has no clothes"

Edited by mcdave on Jun-20-05 at 2:28pm


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 3:21pm | IP Logged  

The pastor.com moderator accused me for not confessing my sins to one another (based on my comment on religious accountability).  It's funny because I just confessed to the whole forum..and they kicked me out.

This is a very interesting post! 



Edited by KevinKim on Jun-20-05 at 3:23pm
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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 4:23pm | IP Logged  

they deleted the post too.

honestly im hurt..i wish i could tell them but they blocked my name.

i poured a lot of myself into my posts...spending hours refining everything i wanted to say.  they removed the whole thing from the forum. 

man..

 

:(

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Greg
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 4:40pm | IP Logged  

You know what... None of this is a waste. I wasn't able to view anything on the post either, but remember the source from which these thoughts came. It's still "Christ in you." Don't let the frustration last long. I'm sure this made some do a double-take on their own identity.

This won't be the last time you're are challenged and "rejected" like this. Use the opportunities to praise God that you are united with the sufferings of Christ. Remember Paul stood in the courtroom and no one was around to defend him. All witness except his own was not there.

So even if you find yourself in a lonely spot, it only appears to be lonely for you are ONE with the Saviour and part of His body and that will never, ever change... Only become ever more obvious.

Greg
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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 4:55pm | IP Logged  

thanks so much for those words Greg...

Im gonna spend today just sitting with God overviewing this whole thing...

Im so tempted to condemn myself right now..since i had about 25 pastors tell me i dont even belong their with them. 

All i wanted to say to them was that NOTHING can come between Him and I anymore.  NOTHING, not even the law.  It make so much sense that me "following Him" doesnt justify me..me "abiding in the law" doesnt justify me..even me "quitting ____" doesnt justify me..only Christ does, and DID

im gonna go spend some time with him haha i really need it right now

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mcdave
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 6:43pm | IP Logged  

Hi Kevin,

just because 25 "pastors" didn't agree with what the LORD has revealed to you about real life in Christ doesn't mean it isn't valid.I was able to read the first page of posts that you started and saw a real understanding in you and your spirit about what real life and grace is.I did NOT see you excusing "sin or refusing to "confess" i saw one who was growing in the knowledge of who you are in Christ and that HE is the author and finisher of your faith.even the responses to you were a bit schizo.one guy said you can't do anything to be made holy but then said you have to try to be holy .
it wasn't you brother it was a group of people caught in a mindset that wouldn't allow them to see real life and real freedom.if you made any error at all it may have been to be too forthright about the things you are doing and that the lord is teaching you about and drawing you out of.they only saw the "sin" because that is where they live.instead of seeing one who knows Christ as the one who has finished everything, and would have seen you as one in him in the midst of the process that HE was doing.keep the faith kev his life really is in you

Edited by mcdave on Jun-20-05 at 7:18pm


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 6:44pm | IP Logged  

Wow, this is so encouraging!!    Thanks so much, you guys, I needed this right now.  

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-20-05 at 10:35pm | IP Logged  

Seattle is sunny and stunning as can be! Absolutely beautiful since
God never seems to miss a heart beat when it comes to watering
the plants here! lol

I experienced something 10 minutes ago that only confirms what I
believe.

You see..its been two years. Prior to this, I would've believed them.
Yep, I would've believed that indeed I must be lost and completely
brainwashed by the devil. I would've given them the power of God
Himself over my thoughts, attitudes, etc.

I refuse to validate what they say! You see..a friend just came over
who is about to go to Baltimore and turn himself into the prison.
We spoke a lot about Christ for the past few weeks and I think
during that time God convinced him to get rid of this burden in his
life and pay the consequences so that he can move on. He's let go
of drug dealing and wants me to help him clean up his act, get a
job at my gas station, etc. GOD TOUCHED HIM.

Now if this was two years ago...you know what I would've done? I
would've done exactly what was done to me in that pastors forum.
I would've told him to get out. I would've told him to go away and
that his presence threatened to spoil the "holiness potential" of my
life. I would've been like the guy in Jesus' parable who would TALK
help but not GIVE help. I would've thought to myself "yeah but he's
smoking a cigarette..I cant possibly interact with somebody who
lives in sin especially when i'm trying to be free from it."

This stuff is real guys because these were the very thoughts that I
was tempted to allow in my head!

You know what also would've gone through my mind? Me.
Nothing but me. I wouldn't have the time of day to think about
him, I mean, how could I when "church leaders" that I'm supposed
to look up to call me a self justified junkie, garbage, etc? My mind
would be consumed with me, what I did wrong, my experiences,
my percieved motivations, etc. I KNOW this because I USED TO BE
LIKE THIS. The more I concentrated on my own holiness the less I
cared about other people...I mean how could I if I have pastors
telling me I have to reach a certain holiness level in order to help
others?

See, without God and who He is, I HAVE no reason to help/love
other people. Without God, its quite logically sound to become a
hedonist...since there would be nothing else to live for but myself.
So when God touches my life so that I may help other people, I'll be
damned if somebody tells me God has his back on me due to my
lack of holiness!

MIGHT AS WELL TELL ME NOT TO LOVE PEOPLE! To preach this
type of gospel is to REMOVE the very power behind it. Unlike those
pastors, Christ spoke with action. He didn't tell me to "change my
ways or get away"...he killed my ways and took my place. He didn't
call me a "self justified junkie" in front of a crowd of people
online...he took my junk and justified me in front of a crowd of
people (offline that is). SUCH a difference. Wow..there is SUCH a
difference.

Forgive me if I am ranting but really..I could've missed the
opportunity to help somebody's life due to religious thinking alone.

You know what his exact words were before leaving to grab his
clothes to bring back and wash in my laundry?

"Help me dog? I'll remember you as a brother for the rest of my
life..see I like to talk to you because you listen and dont give me a
bunch of crumby advice..you listen"

Come to think of it...that sounded like me praying to God a few
years ago! lol! It's GOD. ITS GOD..I would NOT have known how
to interact with this individual if my heart didn't experience for the
past few years His grace over me. I would've dismissed him. I
would've walked away from him and kept him out the loop. THERE
ARE CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS BASED ON RETAINING A HOLY
ENVIRONMENT FOLKS. I would've seriously seriously thought I was
being righteous by subtely REJECTING HIM (with fancy christian
words of course). the very opposite objective.

i am ranting so much..lol. im sorry. right now i have mixed
emotions flowing inside of me...happiness...anger...thankfulness..

oops gotta go..dont have time to wrap up this post...kind of
awkard lol gotta go love youguys


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Meph55
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 4:05am | IP Logged  

hey all

wow, amen its really encouraging stuff going on

your description of God's love and grace impacting you and changing your attititudes and behaviors is so cool kev, along with the input from your friends and siblings here.  wow.

"religion" and "doctrines or traditions of men" do seem like they are only trying to keep us from being, and bringing real LIFE love of Jesus Christ (displayed in our dying bodies) to others.  they appear as if they are pushing us away from REAL relationship, (real loving, God's love) and trying to cause us to push others away from His grace, in order to be (or maintain) our being so "HOLY" and "spiritual", etc.  But Jesus is the TRUTH in us, and even our seeming failures God turns around and uses for good, amazing things; like i'm learning to listen, slowly, cause i begin to see the bogusness of "telling people how to be holy" etc.  when God has done all the work, and LOVE'S them so much already.

funny how God is the DESIGNER of all things, both good and evil.  He knows what will bring us to the point of coming to the end of "ourselves", to the place of simply REST, Jesus and our Father doing the STILLing, and bringing us to KNOW HIM really.  How cool is that.  Even if it appears unfair or funky sometimes, He really knows what is BEST, to make things BETTER.

thanks so much for the balm of joy, Jesus and God-justification (for the whole world) on all of your posts!

his deep love dave c.

ps Prayers going up for your friend, kev.  God's ways are so much better.  higher.  unfathomable love a simple listen to someone's pain and need.  Your friend is in His good hands, and God using you in such an awesome way.

 



      

no fear in love...
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Joyce
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 12:05pm | IP Logged  

 

It just seems to me that there are those that go to school and become lesser of that which they weren't in the first place.

Beyond that though, it seems that the grace that we come into is so much more understood and appreciated though because of these very experiences that we go through.

Joyce

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Connie
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 12:19pm | IP Logged  

Hey kev,

I thouroughly enjoyed your rant! 

It's true...when he changes your perspective, things REALLY change and for the better, don't they?  And all that "good" stuff you tried to be and do and know within the religious realm, and could never quite totally achieve, just starts falling into place, huh?  It's fantastic to know He is our very life!  And all things work together for Good.



      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 2:33pm | IP Logged  

Kevin!!

Life just rings clearly through what you have shared with us here.  Thank you so much for this!!  :)

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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mart1
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 3:13pm | IP Logged  

KevinKim, we know what you mean!  McDave and everybody else, thanks for supporting him, sisters and brothers.

Here's what i think is a parallel clip from a private post with someone else who sometimes posts here:
---------------------------------------------------------- -------
"Hi!  I'm doing alright, i guess...
Work has been kind of slow; but then again that's given me more time,
which is why i wanted to freelance out of my home office in the first
place.

But then again-again, some people have told me that i think too much
(which i tend to do when i have more time).  And i sometimes also think
that i think too much; but i still don't really believe it.

As for the fam, my daughter called me  on father's day evening, and it
was great to catch up with her on current events and about just thoughts
on life.  Also talked with my sis over the weekend; just doing the same
thing...

What God is telling me right now, i'm not quite sure; but i think it is
about going deeper.  Consciously and unconsciously.

I've always been interested in both the Word and science and in trying
to understand why things are the way that they are.  Often feel like i
don't have the tools to learn deeper, tho.  But i know that i got the
Spirit.  So i guess that i'm waiting right now for new tools to be
delivered; or else to find out that i already have received them...
not sure which.

Hey! I did see that 'Outer Limits' episode on late-night TV over here
the other day - i'd seen parts of an earlier running of it probly 6
months ago.  Yeah, they postulated the 'alien' thing as the "cause" of
all supposed miracles.  As i posted before on forums that we both visit,
i listen to Coast-to-Coast late-night radio quite frequently; one of the
hosts often mentions how even any 'scientific technology' that was much
advanced to what we're familiar with would seem like magic to us.

But i don't turn to science and physics much for explanations any more,
like i used to always do before when i got mad at God, ya know?.
Because i am now sure that spiritual life and learning and insight is
always higher than humans' "scientific hypotheses" about why things are
the way that they are.

Thanks for the pic!  Looks like that was a nice sunny day over there for
you...i got one over here myself today.

Yeah, i still post at the 'Shovel' from time to time; i'll probly go
over there to see what people are talking about there today after i send
this.

Sister, you wrote:
"But Mart, I hardly know how to post anymore without seeming nearly
'reprobate' for having so many questions these days."

I sure get you on that!  That's why i don't post at '------------- ----'
anymore.  Whenever i wrote something there that didn't fit in with
-----'s 'orthodox-beliefs', he'd always post a scathing reply and try to
knock me around a bit in front of everybody.  Thank you 'pastor'!

But i mean, if what he said made sense to me, and i felt that God was
speaking to me thru him, i really would try to humble myself and accept
what he says.

But ----- seems to be totally 'hung-up' on his love for tradition, which
i myself have rejected as totally inadequate - because of both my
personal experience and what the Word plainly says.

----- always comes off to me as believing that he now knows 'everything
that God wants us to know!"

God bless him, but i know that he's wrong.  And i know that i want to
know more because i need to because i believe that God wants me to grow.
So that i can share so many amazing things that i could never even dream
about with Him.

Write me back when you get a chance!
God's love to us both!  Teach us Dad...this world is close to driving
both of us nuts!

--------------------------------------------------
mart


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mart1
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 4:01pm | IP Logged  

Bigots within the Body of Christ?  I don't think that that is right.
They are only 'paper' Christians.  And not enough people are ready to confront them about it.
But things are changing within the Body, praise God!

I dream of me and about 6 billion souls all united by knowing that we are all in Christ together, and acting like it, and changing this fallen world into the Kingdom of God thru His power and definite Will for us.

Maybe even before we physically die.

Hey!  Can we all get together tomorrow morning and make this happen in Christ?

Christ told me: "If only i had faith as a mustard seed!"
Man; i'm still still not sure what He meant by that (could He have REALLY meant what i hope that He meant?).

Ain't that the BIG faith-stretch?
mart


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Greg
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 4:10pm | IP Logged  

I was challenged with the "faith" thought too!

I think it means:

               If we have Faith.

Emphasis on the "." Hey! the period is almost the size of a mustard seed!   

Greg
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daniel
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Posted: Jun-21-05 at 8:09pm | IP Logged  

Kev try to get on the site to read your post and couyld not find it. I thank God for His awesome grace and love in your heart and mind .

Love Dan

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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 3:31am | IP Logged  

they banned my ip or something and deleted the post.

to be honest, i think im starting to figure out why talking about Christ and life in Him may disturb some people.

more on that later..

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SETH_
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 4:25am | IP Logged  

Quote:
Christ told me: "If only i had faith as a mustard seed!"
Man; i'm still still not sure what He meant by that (could He have REALLY meant what i hope that He meant?).

if we can have faith as big as a mustard seed and we plant it, He will make it grow. and we will turn into  a blossoming vineyard with all type of fruits coming out of it, things we never knew we were given, purification of fire, pain, mourning and comfort, WORK build on that seed of faith yielding to more faith and that in its turn to more work and more faith and more work...WORK, WORK AND MORE WORK, until He'll tell you to take it easy so that you can leave some for others too

you dont plant that seed you stay where you're at. like the wicked servant who burried the talent.

 

ps: dont even dare twist my post to say that righteousness is by works, i'm not saying that and you know it.

peace

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mart1
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 4:47am | IP Logged  

Seth, i'm right with you and not into twisting anyone's words.
I'm also wondering if i'm close to twisting KevinKim's thread into a direction that is off-topic for him in the first place...

KevinKim, i'm not familiar with "pastors.com"; i may check it out later, but can i ask you this:
"Do the pastors there seem more like recruiters to their various traditions or just simply seekers after the Truth?"
mart
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SETH_
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 5:28am | IP Logged  

Quote:
"Do the pastors there seem more like recruiters to their various traditions or just simply seekers after the Truth?"

good question, even a better one would be:

"Do the pastors there seem more like recruiters to their various traditions or real teachers of the right path?"

hey kevin, how's it goin? glad you got your setup and vst's, hope it all works out for you, i checked out pastors.com. the only thing i can say is that whatever's not build on the ROCk is destined to crumble. and that which is build on it need's water to grow, water beeing guidance and love, the true type not the polluted.

 


 

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mcdave
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 8:27am | IP Logged  

SETH_ wrote:

]if we can have faith as big as a mustard seed and we
plant it, He will make it grow. and we will turn into  a blossoming
vineyard with all type of fruits coming out of it, things we never knew we
were given, purification of fire, pain, mourning and comfort, WORK build
on that seed of faith yielding to more faith and that in its turn to more
work and more faith and more work...WORK, WORK AND MORE WORK,
until He'll tell you to take it easy so that you can leave some for others
too


you dont plant that seed you stay where you're at. like the wicked
servant who burried the talent.


 


ps: dont even dare twist my post to say that righteousness is by
works, i'm not saying that and you know it.


peace



lol seth,

i will not say you are saying righteousness is by works,ok?
     that said,there are "works" that as believers we will come into and do
but they flow OUT OF our identifying with Christ instead of our doing first
in our strength .ephesians 2 says we are saved by faith and not by works
lest any man boast then in the next verse it says there are works HE has
prepared for us.me i'm going to rest in him knowing that it is his gig to
lead me to and through works in him.i know that you aren't saying works
justify us but i want to add for myself that the reason many don't really
come into a real life giving knowledge of Christ is because like the
hebrews mentioned in hebrews 3 and 4 they failed to enter into his rest
and did not inherit the promised land.

Edited by mcdave on Jun-22-05 at 8:29am


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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mart1
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 8:26pm | IP Logged  

I agree, McDave, but you gotta admit that it is tough to enter into the 'rest' when even your own 'church-people' are always like "Do THIS so that you will please God!"

Ain't it funny how people always get upset with you when you decide to quit attending 'their' church?

They just don't get this:
Mt 6:6 - Show ContextBut thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

mart
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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Jun-22-05 at 11:49pm | IP Logged  

Would have been interesting to read the discussion on that Pastors.com website. You probably rattled the cages of those who live in the self-diluted mental state that they have "arrived". It amazes me that someone in the state that they have "arrived" can be so insecure in their beliefs that they delete your existence from thier little universe.

That is something that can be said of Jim, even if you rattle the "arrived-cage" around here a little, Jim doesn't delete you out of shovel-shack existence. 

If you consider the interaction Jesus had with those who lived in that self-diluted mental state that they were the ones who had "arrived" you find that He made it clear that thier trip was the complete opposite to the way of the Holy Spirit of God. That "arrived" trip deserves to be exposed in Love. Hope you do not loose heart and you have the kind-hearted-boldness to continue if the Holy Spirit directs you that way in the future.   

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SETH_
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Posted: Jun-23-05 at 2:04am | IP Logged  

people tend to rewrite history, they rather live in denial than in truth, they rather create their own universe-nest, like "rest and trust" said.

if they get upset for you leaving them, then they dont know that you were upset first for Christ when you were with them.

they dont understand that they are upset for selfish reasons, while you are upset cos Christ is hurt. But thank God for the comfort He provides so we can take all the pain.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. (matthew5:4)

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SETH_
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Posted: Jun-23-05 at 2:26am | IP Logged  

mcdave wrote:
there are "works" that as believers we will come into and do
but they flow OUT OF our identifying with Christ instead of our doing first
in our strength

1-He calls, you respond->works build on faith

2-if He didnt call, it doesnt matter how much you respond, cos you are chasing the wind, futile efforts-> trying to earn righteousness by works

3-if He calls, and you do not respond->that's dead faith, even thow you're resting, you arent being His co-worker you were called to be, and that's worse than scenario #2



Edited by SETH_ on Jun-23-05 at 2:40am
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KevinKim
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Posted: Jun-23-05 at 3:31am | IP Logged  

Its not WORK when springing from your real desires, its PLAY! :)
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SETH_
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Posted: Jun-23-05 at 3:38am | IP Logged  

KevinKim wrote:
Its not WORK when springing from your real desires, its PLAY! :)

if you mean it's not a burden then OK, otherwise no i think its work, ALOT of work but it's a joy doing it.

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mcdave
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Posted: Jun-23-05 at 7:12am | IP Logged  

I think at this point we(me included) might be splitting theological hairs about "works" .I think that if we are in christ he leads us into his will in our lives.what ever you want to call it does not matter.it is still life in him.good place to be wether we are working,resting or playing.it is all his gig.

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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SETH_
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mcdave wrote:
it is all his gig.

without us (or our work) there is no gig

that's all i'm saying

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Joyce
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It seems we all are feeling comfortable personally where we are in this.  So, there's no judgement to be done.  We can only judge where God has us personally.  There are understandings that we each have that is right to us.  I think the problem comes in when someone is comfortable with where they are in Him and know it to be so and then someone says,  "No, no, that isn't right." when we know we are right with God. 

Joyce

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SETH_
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Joyce wrote:
It seems we all are feeling comfortable personally where we are in this.  So, there's no judgement to be done.  We can only judge where God has us personally.  There are understandings that we each have that is right to us.  I think the problem comes in when someone is comfortable with where they are in Him and know it to be so and then someone says,  "No, no, that isn't right." when we know we are right with God. 

mart wrote:

Christ told me: "If only i had faith as a mustard seed!"
Man; i'm still still not sure what He meant by that (could He have REALLY meant what i hope that He meant?).

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mcdave
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SETH_ wrote:

mcdave wrote:
it is all his gig.


without us (or our work) there is no gig


that's all i'm saying



without HIM in us there is no gig.we can add nothing to
it.that is all i am saying.
        how much work did the thief on the cross do and yet Jesus said to
him "This day you will be with me in paradise".all he did was believed.like
i said it is splitting hairs.we of course "do" but there is absolutely nothing
nothing nothing i can do to add to the kingdom of God and Christs
finished work and we can discuss it till he comes again but what fruit is
there in that?esp when i don't think we disagree on the main point Christ
in us is our hope of glory.

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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mart1
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On 'work' and 'play'; i've heard people say that if you love what you're doing, then your job is just more fun (playing).  But i can't diminish Christ's agony in the garden.

Can you even imagine how Christ felt inside after He'd healed a cripple?  Or cured a leper?  Or comforted a prostitute?  In the face of unbelieving multitudes of people?  I guess that that was the 'fun' part for Him.

But the garden and Friday seem to have been 'work' for Him; just like for us today.
mart
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mart1
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I think that Christ wasn't kidding when He said, 'Whatever it takes".

Scriptures:
Mt 10:22 - Show ContextYou will be hated by everybody because of My name. And the one who endures to the end will be delivered.

Mt 24:13 - Show ContextBut the one who endures to the end, this one will be delivered.

Mr 13:13 - Show ContextAnd you will be hated by all because of My name. But the one who endures to the end, this one will be delivered.

1Co 13:7 - Show Contextbears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

2Co 3:11 - Show ContextFor if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.

2Co 9:9 - Show ContextAs it is written: He has scattered; He has given to the poor; His righteousness endures forever.

Jas 1:12 - Show ContextBlessed is a man who endures trials, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that He has promised to those who love Him.

1Pe 1:25 - Show Contextbut the word of the Lord endures forever. And this is the word that was preached as the gospel to you.

1Pe 2:19 - Show ContextFor it brings favor if, because of conscience toward God, someone endures grief from suffering unjustly.
____________________________________________________________ ___________________
I know that it's hard to remember fun when you're going thru agony.  But i believe that that is all part of the job in being a follower of Christ.

mart
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mart1
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KevinKim, to get back to your point, pastors should be the first ones who understand how to heal rather than how to divide.  If my ministering to others is hurting, rather than helping them, i instantly, instinctively know it inside.  I don't know why; i'm just saying...

And i'm just a nobody.  Pastors who don't get it shouldn't be pastors.

mart
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KevinKim
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Mart1..your very right...perhaps "play" is not the best word. How
about PASSION.

I can't even imagine the love that burned inside Christ while
suffering on our behalf...

But I am SURE that as I get to know this love more and more...the
PASSION will grow as well!




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SETH_
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mcdave wrote:
SETH_ wrote:

mcdave wrote:
it is all his gig.


without us (or our work) there is no gig


that's all i'm saying



without HIM in us there is no gig.we can add nothing to
it.that is all i am saying.
        how much work did the thief on the cross do and yet Jesus said to
him "This day you will be with me in paradise".all he did was believed.like
i said it is splitting hairs.

the thief believed so he was accepted. But with us it's different cos we have been given MORE TIME to repent and get purified in His fire.

Quote:
we of course "do" but there is absolutely nothing
nothing nothing i can do to add to the kingdom of God and Christs
finished work and we can discuss it till he comes again but what fruit is
there in that?esp when i don't think we disagree on the main point Christ
in us is our hope of glory.

why do you seperate the kingdom of God from yourself? why do you think you cannot add to the kingdom of God? i agree that without Christ you are nothing and everything you do is futile. But when with Christ you got 2 options: either persue your salvation or sit there like the wicked servant and wait.

dont you know that the kingdom of God is within you? Why did Christ shed His blood for you so you can have an ease of mind and just rest? that's it?

of course you have to rest in His work, but it doesnt stop there... He is inviting you , you either accept the invitation and run the race , fight the good fight...or just sit there feeling good that you are invited, teh day will come when what you have will be taken away from you, and all that will stay is the piece of art you should have been working on, there will be no time, no tool, no nothing to go back all that will be left is : YOUR SOUL.

work on that, turn it into a masterpiece so you can inherit the Kingdom, and because we are not capable of doing that by ourselves, God came down to us, humbled himself, became a servant died on the cross and was resurrected the third day to give life and hope, so we can be His co-workers and prepare the Kingdom, bring souls to Him including our own, only with his strength, love and mind....THATS THE GOSPEL

peace

 



Edited by SETH_ on Jun-24-05 at 1:52am
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mcdave
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you can work all you want seth but God has indeed called his people to rest and like it or not that is what we can do.it is him plus nothing.If you have been led another way fine but leave some room for the chance that God is leading others who maybe have "worked" their whole lives and he is leading them into rest.i really don't want to keep going down this road.your thoughts have been duly noted.

Edited by mcdave on Jun-24-05 at 8:09am


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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SETH_
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Posted: Jun-24-05 at 8:13am | IP Logged  

mcdave wrote:
you can work all you want seth but God has indeed called his people to rest and like it or not that is what we can do.it is him plus nothing.If you have been led another way fine but leave some room for the chance that God is leading others who maybe have "worked" their whole lives and he is leading them into rest.i really don't want to keep going down this road.your thoughts have been duly noted.

i understand your concern, just make sure not to keep people who have found rest in an idle position.

peace

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mcdave
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Posted: Jun-24-05 at 8:44am | IP Logged  

seth i really have to wonder if you have spent much time reading what Jim the shovel has put up here at the shack and the rest of his sight.the general focus is life in Christ based on HIS finished work.Maybe if you read some of Jims stuff you might have a better understanding of where people here are coming from.If not then i wonder why you are even posting here.YOU are not the Holy Spirit we already have one of those

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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SETH_
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mcdave wrote:
seth i really have to wonder if you have spent much time reading what Jim the shovel has put up here at the shack and the rest of his sight.the general focus is life in Christ based on HIS finished work.Maybe if you read some of Jims stuff you might have a better understanding of where people here are coming from.If not then i wonder why you are even posting here.YOU are not the Holy Spirit we already have one of those

yes i have read Jim's writings

no i am not the Holy Spirit

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Rest and Trust
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mcdave wrote:
seth i really have to wonder if you have spent much time reading what Jim the shovel has put up here at the shack and the rest of his sight.the general focus is life in Christ based on HIS finished work.Maybe if you read some of Jims stuff you might have a better understanding of where people here are coming from.If not then i wonder why you are even posting here.YOU are not the Holy Spirit we already have one of those

I really make an effort to avoid expressing how I feel when I read a post that makes me want to blow chunks. However in this instants I believe something needs to be said. You are blantantly promoting a man/leadership worship-trip to create a moral high ground. Then you make an incredibly hypocrytical statement towards Seth using that perceived moral high ground. Why not leave that man/leadership-worship-bullshit in the I/C instead of trying to make it flourish in other arenas?

There are quite a few people who have read much of what Jim has written and offered here at this site who rarely post or no longer post here. Their posts were profitable, enjoyable and encouraging towards unity in the Spirit of Christ. One of the main reasons that (I am aware of) they finally moved on is the frequent promotion of I/C trips like this man/leadership worship. Many of us have received the anointing from God through Jesus Christ of the Holy Spirit and we have no need that any MAN teaches us. But we can take (by faith) what others say into the Holy Spirit (who is joined to our Spirit) and let Him offer to our mind what He wants to show us from what we read (and hear).

The letter kills but the Holy Spirit gives Life. What I receive from much of what Seth posts is- God WORKS through His children. There is no shame or wrong in wanting God to perform His work through you in words and actions. There is no evil-legalism in God working through you. Why not let those of us who trust God to work through us in actions, encourage each other without the constant distraction of your painting what we say to be some brand of legalism and/or dis-unity?    

 

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Joyce
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McDave,

There's nothing new under the sun.  As it was in Paul's day... so it is today... but what to do, I don't know.

Joyce

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Joyce
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Sorry, not sure that the tone of my previous post is what I wanted to relate.  It just seems as in a post I just wrote on another thread, that there are those of us that have come out from under condemnation and then when we sense that coming at us again, it can be discouraging and "a downer", especially when we don't feel that God is dealing with us in that way anymore.   I THINK that is more of what I wanted to relate, (until and unless of course I change my mind again.  )

Joyce

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SETH_
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Joyce wrote:
Sorry, not sure that the tone of my previous post is what I wanted to relate.  It just seems as in a post I just wrote on another thread, that there are those of us that have come out from under condemnation and then when we sense that coming at us again, it can be discouraging and "a downer", especially when we don't feel that God is dealing with us in that way anymore.   I THINK that is more of what I wanted to relate, (until and unless of course I change my mind again.  )

Joyce, trust me i know what u mean, sometimes you hear people simply talking about their own life in Christ and you feel guilty cos you feel you are lagging or not "performing" like u should or "up to standards". trust me ive been there and that still happens to me sometimes.

but that's not what is being said here. Dont obsess over that cos now u will refuse everything u hear that doesnt suit your flesh-interrest.

be honest with yourself and recognize that there are things to be fixed in you and if you feel that you cant, IT'S OK, everything need s time, put it all in the Lords hands and in due time He'll fix it all, He is a just God and He is fair. he doesnt expect of us more than we can do, yu shouldnt expect of yourself more than you are capable of just TRUST.

that doesnt mean it's cool to do whatever nothing matters... we r under grace so to hell with our souls or we r resting so God doesnt want us to do anything

faith without works is DEAD.

 

JAMES 2 

 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

    18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
      Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

    19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

    20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

    25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.



Edited by SETH_ on Jun-25-05 at 5:32am
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SETH_
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Rest and Trust wrote:
The letter kills but the Holy Spirit gives Life. What I receive from much of what Seth posts is- God WORKS through His children. There is no shame or wrong in wanting God to perform His work through you in words and actions. There is no evil-legalism in God working through you. Why not let those of us who trust God to work through us in actions, encourage each other without the constant distraction of your painting what we say to be some brand of legalism and/or dis-unity?

thank you for the encouragement and support

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Dave S
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[

Edited by Dave S on Jun-25-05 at 9:59am
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