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Ministry/Church Related
 Shovel Shack : Ministry/Church Related
Subject Topic: The world of religion
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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-17-06 at 2:00pm | IP Logged  

Since the sub topic of this section is "current events".... just wondered if anyone had any comments regarding what is in the news right now of what the Pope said as a quote regarding Mohammed and the reaction from that sect with regard to it.

Joyce

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_Jason_
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Posted: Sep-17-06 at 2:15pm | IP Logged  

The radicals of the sect are reacting the way radicals always do, when anyone criticizes them. Although it isn't being reported, I'm sure a lot of Muslims are upset by the Pope's comments, but have chosen to simply ignore what he said. I think the Pope just learned a valuable lesson about the instant-media age that we live in. He probably didn't expect his comments to receive the instant world-wide reporting that they did.

      

"Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver." - Jason from AL
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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-17-06 at 2:57pm | IP Logged  

Jason,

Yes, and a thought that I had after reading what you wrote was that it is easy to see things in others that we don't see in ourselves as coming from, (or being involved with) that which we may be accusing in others.  The quote was from something said of that sect that was even from a long time ago where it was called evil and inhumane, yet does not recognize or bring to the forefront it's own sect's evil and inhumanness in times past.  I guess the saying is true.... love is blind.  Seems that can even apply to some sort of 'love of institution'.  It all just seem so "in the news and in the forefront of what is happening in the world", even from the worlds standpoint, two of the main sects that are supposed to be representative of "God"... and yet all so bogus.... on both sides of the fence.

Joyce



Edited by Joyce on Sep-17-06 at 3:18pm
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_Jason_
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Posted: Sep-17-06 at 8:01pm | IP Logged  

All very well stated, Joyce.



      

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graceman
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Posted: Sep-18-06 at 6:43pm | IP Logged  

Maybe 'someone' should quote 'someone' else TO THE POPE on a little matter known as THE CRUSADES...'lets convert them at the point of a sword'!  That's real Christian.  All the religious 'stuff' sucks...
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_Jason_
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graceman wrote:
Maybe 'someone' should quote 'someone' else TO THE POPE on a little matter known as THE CRUSADES...'lets convert them at the point of a sword'!  That's real Christian.  All the religious 'stuff' sucks...


Honest question, because I don't know: Has the R.C. church ever officially denounced the "convert-or-die" practices employed by it during the crusades?

.....and I agree with you, graceman, All the religious "stuff" does suck indeed.


      

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Joyce
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I was just watching a news clip about the Iranian leader and his thought on things... and of those in his country.  They believe their "messiah" is coming... "Mahdi" and that he is now in a well in Iran which they have incased with a metal box that has slits in it.  That is so that people can write out prayer requests and send down to him.  There was a young boy with a flashlight trying to see if he could catch a glimpse of him through the cracks, but didn't.  It is believed that he will appear at the Armagedon and that chaos is what will usher that in and so it is chaos that they are trying to bring about so that Mahdi will come in and bring about the justice and peace that we all seek.  He will return with Jesus and then Jesus will give credence to the Islam faith and then all will be united.  I don't know of any better story to spell "deception". 

On top of this you have the "Christian" church with all of the "out there" beliefs... and all in the name of Christ. 

We're not talking here about a few scattered sects of a few hundred people on earth, but probably the two major religions involving millions... and maybe even more as you look through the centuries.  Lookin from an earthly point of view the whole thing makes no sense.  What could be the purpose of such mass deception.  But then we know Who is ultimately in control and orchestrating of everything that goes on...  Perhaps the unveiling of Truth will be so magnificent... so indescribible... so great... that this has to be the scenerio of that which proceeds.  (?)

Just some thoughts...

Joyce

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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-19-06 at 10:19am | IP Logged  

Someone was bringing up on another site too how that the Qur'an is not near as violent as the things in the OT or the things that God was commanding to be done.  I don't really understand all of that either.

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Dignz
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It seems that there are 2 manipulations and maneuverings that are at work in this world and the entire creation as a whole ... those from man and the evil one attempting to make things as they so desire, and those from GOD Who ultimately manipulates and maneuvers in the affairs of creation, the world, mankind and individuals all at the same time, even using the very maneuverings and manipulations of those who are so convinced that they are and can thwart Him, and think that they are the ones in control.  And indeed, they are 'seemingly' for a time.  At least it 'appears' to all human reasoning that they are.  So much is facade, illusion, presumption, assumption, etc. 

Sometimes it all seems to mix and mingle, all those manipulations and maneuverings.  Sometimes things 'appear' one way, but are indeed in the end proven to be something else altogether.

Then here we are in the midst of it all and it tends to effect us in ways we really do not like, appreciate, understand, or emotionally accept sometimes.    I think we all have this in common, even with the world around us. 

So, what are ya gonna do, ya know?    


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-19-06 at 2:01pm | IP Logged  

So, what am I gonna do?

I think I'll go to the beach and sip pina colada's.     

Anything else that I did, wouldn't effect it anymore than doing that. 

Joyce

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evelina
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Posted: Sep-19-06 at 5:30pm | IP Logged  

Pina coladas on a beach sounds so wonderful.  It was so cold here the last few nights we got some snow and it came very close to freezing. Thank goodness it melted.

Evelina

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mcdave
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Posted: Sep-19-06 at 6:57pm | IP Logged  

snow!!too early and that is from a die hard minnesotan.though we may get frost tomorrow night

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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Dave S
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Posted: Sep-19-06 at 7:27pm | IP Logged  

So, what are ya gonna do, ya know?

Take the red pill.

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mcdave
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Posted: Sep-19-06 at 10:03pm | IP Logged  

Like this?

Morpheus:
I imagine that right now you're feeling a bit like Alice. Tumbling down the rabbit hole?
Neo: You could say that.
Morpheus: I can see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he's expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth. Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: 'Cause I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind -- driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Neo: The Matrix?
Morpheus: Do you want to know what it is?
(Neo nods his head.)
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
(In his left hand, Morpheus shows a blue pill.)
Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. (a red pill is shown in his other hand) You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. (Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill) Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.
(Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)

      

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Dignz
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Posted: Sep-20-06 at 8:36am | IP Logged  

Ah yes, you guyz are funnzy!!  ; )

Good to hear from you Evelina!   : )

Funny, isn't it?  The snow sounds refreshing to me because we have been sweltering in temps in the 90's!  You open the door, and the heat blasts you in the face!  Sooo rude, I tell ya!    And getting in the car!!  It takes the a/c a whole trip to wherever you are going before it can even cool down, and by then you have already arrived to your destination, a wilted, sweaty, yucky mess!!  (I need a little melting emoticon dripping in a puddle here!)

But, I know that I would get wearied of the cold, just like I am wearied to the core and beyond with the heat!  Never satisfied!!  sighhhh

A perpetual Fall and/or early Spring would be perfection to me!  : )  And I am not talking a Florida Fall or Spring!!  SOUTH Florida has no Fall!  It has about 6 months of SUMMER and another 6 months of late Spring with an occasional visit from a 'cool' front dipping the temps in the wee morning hours.  All warms up by noon'ish the next day!!

I am SUCH the complainer!!


Edited by Dignz on Sep-20-06 at 8:37am


      

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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-20-06 at 9:31am | IP Logged  

Evalina,

Wow, I feel for you. That is worse than what I have here.  I am in a northern state though and just can hardly take the winters anymore.  My furnace is now running again.  Need a jacket this morning, etc. 

Can't complain though... my daughter is treating me to a trip to the south for a few days where she is doing some business.  But wait... that isn't the best part.... it's in the W. Palm Beach area!  which means I'm going to get to see Jim and Sherri again.  That's even better than having good weather....    Anything you guys want me to tell them while I'm there?  

McDave,

Thanks for posting the matrix conversation.  It is a good way of relating how it is and really applies to the topic here.  Thought it might be interesting since this came up to have others relate when they started "getting the feeling" or when they feel they "took the red pill".  Just an idea.... 

I'm sure we can all relate too regarding the aspect of.... you can never go back.

Joyce



Edited by Joyce on Sep-20-06 at 9:34am
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Rest and Trust
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The thought occurred to me from the first posts on this that the American Indians were treated to a murderess crusade of their own by the Protestants. The Jews, Christians, Gypsies, handicapped, etc... of the last century, were treated to a murderess rampage "crusade" by Mao se tung, Castro, Hitler, Stallin, Pol Pot, (Doctors with scissors) etc... and their societies in order to create the perfect society or a "humanism" religion. It seems like our own armed forces sometimes combined with armed forces of the U.N. in just the last few years has killed at least tens of thousands, if not hundreds. All in the name of their version of a perfect world. it is always played out through our media that it is tyrants and despots that we are killing alll those people to get rid of. In most of those cases the people will simply allow another of their own to rise up and become a tyrant or a dospot over them again. I would guess that most of those nations that the U.S. and U.N. armies attack would much rather be free from the authority of the U.S. and U.N. meddling politicians and the incredibly vile societies that they represent. Who knows?

Same old worldly garbage goes on every generation. Same old spirit of the world ("of the power of the air") running the worldly generation and the next until it is unrestrained and the end of this age comes. It is so crazy that the world operates from the spirit of this world, when considering the fact that the Spirit of God is completely accessible to live from and walk in.

Something that has not been reported widely is the fact that in June, Russia signed a treaty with Syria and Iran to be allied in armed conflict. I wonder why they would go to the trouble to put that kind of alliance together? Interesting times we live in...    

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mcdave
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Hi Joyce,

 one distincly obvious thing about taking the "red pill".  it brings about a revelation of a different reality than the one they had been experiencing. hence
"You're here because you know something. What you know, you can't explain. But you feel it. You felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind -- driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me....."
 taking the red pill,having ones eyes opened to the reality of Life in Christ is something that one no longer "feels" it becomes something that someone knows.
 
You take the blue pill(conventional wisdom put forth by the IC) and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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Dave S
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Posted: Sep-20-06 at 6:48pm | IP Logged  

D

  e

     e

        e

           e

                e

                   e

                      p

                         

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mcdave
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     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-20-06 at 9:37pm | IP Logged  

Hmmm,  I just started thinking after reading those above quotes.  Do you think there really is any choice?  It seems to those that have that "some kind of knowing" that comes to them, seemingly from no effort or anything on their part, that there really isn't a choice.   Maybe we were "born different" or... "chosen different".  (?) 

(No matter the cause or the specifics of it all...  let's face it... we are really "different"... and like to be around the rest of the "different ones".    

Joyce

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Dignz
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Posted: Sep-21-06 at 7:40am | IP Logged  

"The Matrix is everywhere, it is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, or when go to church or when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back."

This makes me think of the religious world I was surrounded by and inundated with for so many years of my life ... the lies and deceptions fed to me, and sometimes very much willingly and enthusiastically swallowed by me, and then later spewed forth and 'shared' with others.  (spew emoticon)

It makes me think of all the facades and illusions created from the human reasonings of man without GOD.  You know, all those 'reputations' we think are based on reality, but are indeed only 'facades' ... not what they appear on the outside surface at all, if you know what I mean? 
 
We kind of have that in reverse.  We do not 'appear' from the outside to be anything 'special' to GOD ~ 'failures', 'bad decisions', 'major mistakes', 'unacceptable behaviors', 'appearances', etc. ... fill in the blank, it is pretty relative, really.  But our Reality is none of what that outward appearance gives 'impressions' of, ya know?

Jesus was right before the very eyes of the religious world, and they did not know Him, even when He performed miracles that only GOD could do!  They 'reasoned' it all away, made excuses, fed their denials, etc. 

We have been miraculously called out of death into Life, out of darkness into Light, made NEW and Alive to GOD out of all that which was once death and darkness, (redundant, but you get the point?) and .... it simply does not yet appear what we shall be when we are 'revealed'
at the appointed time as who we really Are in Christ.

For some, once the source of bondage has been revealed and they have experienced true freedom, you would think and hope that there would be no going back, but ... sadly, there are some who are sucked back in to all the facade, illusion, delusion, etc. ... back to that which can hold so much power and sway ... that which binds in all its various chains, ropes, and whatever 'binding materials' are used. 

This is what eludes us and makes us uncomfortable, I think.  We want to know the 'formula' for avoiding this.  Other than speaking the truth of Christ to one another, there is no 'formula'.  Life speaks to Life and death speaks to death. 

These are just my 'too early' morning ponderings stimulated by the Matrix postings.  Add to, take away from, whatever you so choose.  I will appreciate more stimulation and thought-provokement (<--is that a word?) toward that Life which I love so to hear about!  : )


Edited by Dignz on Sep-21-06 at 7:43am


      

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Joyce
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Posted: Sep-21-06 at 10:11am | IP Logged  

Oh, Dignz,  That was so good to read and think about, especially about the things that "appear" to be but aren't.  It is a good reminder and I like the way you brought the example of Christ into it. Seems we can all identify.  It reminds me of what it says... something like how we are "HID WITH CHRIST IN GOD".   

We "see", yet through a dim glass compared to the "glory that shall be revealed".  It's like you have maybe just enough "seeing" to help you get through the mire and be able to reject that which doesn't speak as Life to you. 

Many seem dependent on what they consider a "book of Life", yet even that can be distorted (by the reading or the hearing)and so it takes the senses of 'Something higher' to discern it all it seems. 

I guess I see what you mean when you say others come into a seeing of the bondage and a freedom revealed, and yet go back into the bondage in one way or another.  That's why it seems so important for those coming to faith to be given the true good news in follow up.  I don't understand why things are the way they are.  

Like you, I would LOVE to hear (even from everyone here) their thoughts on this.  LIFE .... it comes from that which is in everyone here.  I think we get more of "something" of Christ that is unique to each individual when it's shared. 

Joyce

 



Edited by Joyce on Sep-21-06 at 10:14am
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Rest and Trust
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Rest and Trust wrote:
Something that has not been reported widely is the fact that in June, Russia signed a treaty with Syria and Iran to be allied in armed conflict. I wonder why they would go to the trouble to put that kind of alliance together? Interesting times we live in...

Correction: I was talking to my wife about that article where the alliance of Russia, Syria and Iran and it states that only Syria and Iran signed the mutual defence, on June 15th 2006. in the same article it states that Russia is presently opening a navy Port at the Port of Tartus, on Syria's Mediteranian coast.

In the last 2 to 3 weeks many of the muslim nations in that area have been practicing war games together along with China and Russia. They are a result and in response towards the U.S. military presence in Iraq.

We have become fairly desensitized here when it comes to freaking out over the possible Ezekiel 38 type overtones to events in the middle east. But we don't disregard the fact that it could actually be playing out that way right now whether we freak out or not.     



Edited by Rest and Trust on Sep-21-06 at 1:32pm
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evelina
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Hi Rest and Trust,

Are you talkling about bible end-times prophecies and predictions?  I don't know what to beleive anymore about that.  I used to really be into Van Impe and now when I happen to change channels to his christian prophecy TV show, he's still going on about the same things all these years..  I dunno know. You think we're desensitized?  I don't listen much to the news anymore either, it puts fear in me.

 

Evelina

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graceman
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Hi all

Dignz...if those are your 'too-early' in the morning ramblings, I SO look forward to your thoughts when WIDE AWAKE!

I have been listening to alot of 'talk radio' lately while at work.  The 'holy trinity' of Limbaugh, Hannity and O'reilly, to be specific.  I kid my wife that I need to listen to these guys, 'so I'll know WHAT NOT TO BELIEVE'.  These guys espouse a religion...the religion of SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS!  Its modus operandi: 1) Define my enemy. 2) Destroy my enemy.  Why?  He is evil and has no (permanent) place in MY God's world.  The world of the GOOD...(in other words, those who keep my standards).

I sometimes wish there were some 'political' answers for our world...there isn't.  The better someone or something looks on the OUTSIDE, the exponential disappointment when their lack of LOVE and LIFE is exposed.  Just rambling...

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Dignz
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Posted: Sep-22-06 at 9:20am | IP Logged  

Morning there Joe,

I recognize what is going on could very well be our end time thing.  (altho' everything after Christ IS 'endtime', I think.)  ; )  It could very well be the sealing of our doom as a Nation.  We could very soon seize to even be, and/or some may soon be forced to scatter to the winds, and all chaos rule even further.

Yet, I can not do anything about it!  To dwell on it does bring some fear and dread to my heart.  Especially for my loved ones whom I can not protect in any of it!!  If I were to dwell on it, I WOULD freak out, and freak out is exactly what I do NOT want to do about something that I can NOT change or affect (or is it effect?) in any way, shape or form.

What is it you think about it all and what is it you think there is for us to do or to think in the midst of all of it?  'Cuz ... I dunno.


Edited by Dignz on Sep-22-06 at 9:25am


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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Posted: Sep-22-06 at 9:27am | IP Logged  

Enjoyed your 'ramblings', Chris.  : )

Ramble on, I say!  Ramble on!  This is the Shovel Shack of many Ramblings!  : )



Joyce, appreciate your encouragement!  Good stuff!  : )


Edited by Dignz on Sep-22-06 at 9:30am


      

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Rest and Trust
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Posted: Sep-23-06 at 12:10pm | IP Logged  

evelina wrote:
 I dunno know. You think we're desensitized?  I don't listen much to the news anymore either, it puts fear in me.

I guess it is difficult to get past the fear of all of the chaos going on in the news and around us. Im not sure if I have gotten past the fear of those things or if I have simply grown so accustomed to it that I don't notice it anymore. I do know that I look forward to a dimension where there is no distraction from the Spirit of God in/through Jesus Christ. I know to a degree (allowing for the distraction of the flesh body that we now inhabit) we can enjoy that dimension now. 

I look at many alternative news sources to get my take on whats going on in the world at large. One of the main reasons that I consider any media-news is that it helps me to know what my children are facing and in what ways we might encourage them better.  

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luvin
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Posted: Sep-23-06 at 12:18pm | IP Logged  

i say lets just live as if the world is truly a great place were bad things happen once in a while!

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
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Posted: Sep-23-06 at 12:19pm | IP Logged  

..oh and if this is good here..just wait until we are at home with the creator of all this wonder!

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Rest and Trust
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Location: United States
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Posted: Sep-23-06 at 12:52pm | IP Logged  

Dignz wrote:
What is it you think about it all and what is it you think there is for us to do or to think in the midst of all of it?  'Cuz ... I dunno.

I have a few serious thoughts but it is difficult for me to put them into words.

I see our society as possibly the greatest promoter and perpetuator of accursed practices that this world has ever known. (I don't live in or from that mentality anymore but I do recognize it when I must consider it.) Obviously if the result of curses were removed from the world of flesh and law then there would be no funerals anymore. I doubt that there would be any need for anything medicinal either, who knows? There are many people in this world who continue to be deceived into operating from a fear of the curse of death. If we ignore that this is going on all around us and simply allow ourselves to "go along to get along" then we will be guided by the fear of death also. The only way that I know to avoid being swept away by the deception that creates the fear of death, is to "be" in the moment in the reality of the Spirit of God, who flows freely into us through Jesus Christ. The Spirit does flow free whether we believe it or not. There is no obstacle that hinders Him. The mind can be in the deception of the fea of death or the reality of the Spirit of Christ. I choose to allow the attention of my mind to live from/in Him rather than from the fear of death.    

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Xrayspex
Extreme Digger
Extreme Digger


Joined: Aug-07-06
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 117
Posted: Sep-24-06 at 5:37am | IP Logged  

Joyce wrote:

Someone was bringing up on another site too how that the Qur'an is not near as violent as the things in the OT or the things that God was commanding to be done.  I don't really understand all of that either.

 

True Islam respects Christians and respects Christ..

there are 99 names for God in Islam and the last name will be revealed to them..this is what the Quran says somewhere.

God has then in His sights for justification through faith and not works. he loves them dearly..

 

I don't know about the US, but where I live in South London, we have thousands of Muslims living here, working, paying tax, voting, indeed very British one could say; they love our education (private mainly of course..as it is very traditional and one they relate to for actually good reasons in my opinion)

 

LOVE is a great WMD



      

Oh Bondage, Up Yours!! - 'X-ray spex'1978
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