the shovel wrote: Yeah, just consider how the disciples reacted (through the mouth of Peter) when Jesus spoke of his impending death on the cross. Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You." (Matthew 16:22 NASB) It was offensive to even seriously mention it. It was more than just death, it was ultimate humiliation and condemnation. "Cursed is he who hangs on a tree". However, the disciples came to count it joy when they were made conformable to his death. Paul wrote, "to know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings; being conformed to his death." This may seem a little unrelated, but humor me in my delusion that it fits like a glove. As Jesus was about to go up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside by themselves, and on the way He said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up." Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. And He said to her, "What do you wish?" She said to Him, "Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left." But Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?" They said to Him, "We are able." He said to them, "My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father." And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers. But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:17-28 NASB) It was brought up earlier on the Shack about James and John and this cup Jesus asked them about. The question about the cup is an obvious referral to whether they would follow Jesus to his death, but I think it is incorrectly assumed that Jesus accepted their quick affirmation. Were they able? Not a chance. They ran, they abandoned him, they shrunk back in shame. And Jesus knew that. He told them ahead of time ... but then told them not to be troubled, merely to believe in him. Oh yes, they were going to drink the cup, but they would have to be brought into it, for God would conform them to the death of his son. Joined together in death, and raised together in his life! Not only that, but in their experience they would come to understand how separated they were from the world they once thought of as their home. As Paul wrote, "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." (Galatians 6:14 NASB) I know it's popular to use the verse about taking up one's cross, but Jesus' demand ended up being fulfilled by taking his disciples down into his death, not by them being able to follow through on some kind of Christian principle of living. Remember how he told them while washing their feet that they did not understand what he was doing, but that they would? It's the same regarding the taking up of the cross. It's in the afterward of their testimony that we see what they came to understand. If we're looking at his words as being some kind of principle we need to follow then we're going to miss the reality of what he did for us and to us, as well as him bringing us into the realization of having been crucified to the world and the world having been crucified to us. And yeah, that realization can bring much pain and suffering because we come to see it in the context of being rejected and hated by the mind of that which we thought was our family. Jim :)

You know Jim I have often been led to recognize this but could never confidently speak it[due to lack of biblical contextual understanding]. So number one, thank you for speaking it/writting it, and number two, let me just say that this is seemingly A  huge stumbling block for those who would walk after the Spirit.[us who are saved]Those that would act and walk after the things of the mind of flesh seem to promote the living shit out of  Jesus' statment "take up your cross" and turn it into some sort of dead end road of "self denial".[of the flesh and through the flesh] I am happy to see the connection of the boasting in the cross of Christ and connecting it's TRUE meaning for us who are in the Son. Thank you brother.

      

Dang Jim,

what you shared here put a 180 on "taking up the cross"theme. The understanding of self denial is not one of giving up ascetic pleasures or some such frivolities, like the religious mindset would tell us.  It completely has to do with the power of his resurrection within the believer that sets up shop and has its way.  That one in Christ ends up denying any shred of self effort to serve, and rests in His power to achieve.  And the achieving isn't even necessarily understandable, but it is witnessable!  You sense it within and you sense it in others. 

      

Amen Connie, Amen

As He stated " My burden is light" . Taking up the cross is the key to our joy.

Later on I,ll tell ya a stooooory

gregoryfl wrote:     I don't know why I am not just keeping this to myself, because it makes me feel like a complete idiot. But I just feel like posting this, getting this out in the open, will help me heal. I do sincerely thank you Jim and Sherri for having this God-send of a site up for Jesus. So much for my string of short posts. Ron

Ron:

I have OFTEN felt like an idiot on this forum and in life, in general.  I have not had time to read all of your posts, just because most of my reading is done at work - while I take breaks from work. Anyway, I can't comment on all your posts since I have not read all of them. I will say this you saying you feel like an idiot, being real, being vunerable - it made my heart leap.  I'm trying to say, that last post, for me, was full of life.  It is not that we have to feel like an idiot for HIS life to flow through us but I think it is one of those things where HIS life shows up in the places we sometimes least expect it, in ways we least expect. 

Think baby in a manger. !! More  - I had to go back and edit my post - I first wrote "baby in a manager"!!! I crack myself up!!

      

Ron,

Your such a neat and transparent guy. Kepp in mind I have been here at this forum about 8 years and I have had many, many posts in that time. Some things I thought would really help others and some I had no intention or clue would help anyone...guess what ended up happening in BOTH cases?

Stay with us here bro, there's lots to ask, question, challenge and say.

      

Ron:

You had me worried there for a minute.  I was certain that I took the word "idiot" from your original post.  So I had to read it again to find the word.  AHHHH, are you just trying to get me to read your posts?

Just kidding, brother.

No room at the office! LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

      

Dignz wrote: ron, ya know what!?  just because someone does not direct a post reply directly TO you, does NOT mean they did not get anything out of it, or that they did not like it, or that they did not agree, or that they did not get all excited even!!  i kid you not!  i can not tell you all the posts i read and never even reply post to them, but really got a lot out of them and even say to my hubby things like:  'wasn't that a great post!?'  and we will both just really be appreciating it. so ... i hope you will reach a more comfy place within yourself to just post your heart because you need to post your heart and know that it surely might mean something to SOME body who just hasn't said anything.  i often wonder how many people are out there that have been lurking for a long time and never post anything, yet they are really encouraged anyway.  i apologize too for the misunderstanding of the post that says you can't post anything.  i wasn't saying no one could post.  i was quoting that from jim's post about what he wants for the shack.    i think that subject title needs to be changed.  i wasn't very clear about that, even tho' i tried to specify a little in the opening.  communication IS a tricksie thing, yes?  i love your posts ron.  they are full of encouragement and LIFE!  so are so many others'.  i don't always post a reply to everything i get something out of.  some thoughts are posted just because they are remembering the last post read or the last comment or line or something else has just taken my focus elsewhere. ron and everyone ... i hope always for His life's encouragement for your hearts!

Dignz,

this was very cool.[as usual] I wanted to add too that the great place about this forum and the Spirit of God in us is that nobody here is any big deal...we don't need to be looked at as anything other than ..in Christ! Let's face it, if any of us tried getting esteem for helping people here we would be in for a rude awakening!

love to all!

I will be leaving the forum for a while and returning for short periods at a future date.[relocating to CO/U.S.]

      

oh you crack yourself up, dont you? niccce 

adam, a buddy of mine moved to co a couple of years ago. ironically he calls it the promise land. been there myself. its beautifull. good luck.

hey jimmy, if you ever write a comic book........ you have permission to use mine and rons stuff.

      

your killing me sherr.  that happens to my sister all the time.  hohohee hee hahaha. stop, really, now, hahaha. oh jeez.

and jimmy, i love what you write as long as its 10 words or less and no more than 2 syllables per word. face to face is still the best.

      

Ron,

You got Jim to respond. That is a feat not many can lay claim to. He's been so quiet the last year or so, and here you and Matthew have him typing up a storm! If you were looking for a quantity of responses, I think you missed the quality of the one response you got. If I wasn't enjoying a lot of your writing so much, I could thank you for that one thing!

      

i think it was more of a technical question now that i ponder it. and no, your not lacking, and yes, i suppose i have all i need. you being among them. thanks

      

This is just precious gold..thanks Jim.

      

Sherri, Sherri, whom we adore.

Tell us,

just who is the greatest

procrastinator of them all.

God is in control.  He wants you to give Him glory and thanks for whatever fruit comes from whatever He does, not from what you think you do (or anyone of us).

"Who do you think Paul is, anyway? Or Apollos, for that matter? Servants, both of us - servants who waited on you as you gradually learned to entrust your lives to our mutual Master. We each carried out our servant assignment. I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plants, but God made you grow. It's not the one who plants or the one who waters who is at the center of this process but God, who makes things grow. Planting and watering are menial servant jobs at minimum wages. What makes them worth doing is the God we are serving. You happen to be God's field in which we are working. Using the gift God gave me as a good architect, I designed blueprints; Apollos is putting up the walls. Let each carpenter who comes on the job take care to build on the foundation!"

Not that this scripture has anything to do with it, but i just need to say that God can use your gifts for His glory.  He can stop any time.  I'm afraid i've praised you too much in regard to your gifts.  i see what God will do with you, and talk about it prematurely.  It's good to see Him doing this ego squashing in you.  i know it hurts.  i've felt it.  Try wearing a scarf on your head for a month.  When i say it's good to see you hurting, i don't mean i like to see you hurting.  No.  i'm thinking of:

"By entering through faith into what God has always wanted to do for us - set us right with him, make us fit for him - we have it all together with God because of our Master Jesus. And that's not all: We throw open our doors to God and discover at the same moment that he has already thrown open his door to us. We find ourselves standing where we always hoped we might stand - out in the wide open spaces of God's grace and glory, standing tall and shouting our praise. There's more to come: We continue to shout our praise even when we're hemmed in with troubles, because we know how troubles can develop passionate patience in us, and how that patience in turn forges the tempered steel of virtue, keeping us alert for whatever God will do next. In alert expectancy such as this, we're never left feeling shortchanged. Quite the contrary - we can't round up enough containers to hold everything God generously pours into our lives through the Holy Spirit! Christ arrives right on time to make this happen. He didn't, and doesn't, wait for us to get ready. He presented himself for this sacrificial death when we were far too weak and rebellious to do anything to get ourselves ready. And even if we hadn't been so weak, we wouldn't have known what to do anyway."