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Debi
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Posted: Jun-15-10 at 10:04pm | IP Logged  

A friend told us he thought he found a group that was understanding grace and wanted us to visit. Well, I guess "grace" can mean so many different things. This group was having a special visitor that wanted to share what God was teaching him about grace. It was so sad. Grace ended up being a commodity that could be channeled through him. He spent so much time telling everyone to pray for more grace since we are told to grow in grace. Then he asked everyone that had been impressed by his message to come around him and he literally started blowing "grace" on everyone and people started falling down and other things.

I'm so glad God has given us all the grace we need because we have Christ!

When it says to "grow in grace" would anyone be interested in sharing what  that means to you?


Edited by Debi on Jun-17-10 at 5:29pm


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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Dignz
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Posted: Jun-15-10 at 11:24pm | IP Logged  

i think of the apostle peter encouraging the saints to remember what the apostle paul taught them and spoke to them about concerning christ.

paul's message was the gospel of grace in christ jesus and that is what i love to read about and hear about. 

when being encouraged and built up and supported in the grace of christ, bull-shit sensors can grow extra sensitive to what is NOT the gospel of grace in christ jesus.   and when those alarms, lights and red flags go up, we can be thankful, happy and relieved to pay attention to them.  we can enjoy sharing when we are able, to help awaken those around us who have been emotionally and mentally bullied, beat up, lied to and dulled to sleep concerning the truth of their life in him. 

the apostle peter never forgot when the apostle paul caught him in the act of being sucked-in and influenced by the lies that there was still a separation of worth, value and equality between some in the body, in the new creation, in the miraculous joining of man to god, both jew and gentile, male and female, bond and free ... the lies that there was still something missing that jesus did not cover in his death on the cross and that there was still a need to go back to the law ... as if all the requirement of the law had not been provided for and satisfied by jesus christ ... as if there was still a need of the ever futile attempts of man to fulfill the bogus 'lack' to please god ... as if he EVER could. 

peter reminded them that there would be those to come in among them to lead them away from the good news of the grace of christ, and would make slaves and servants of them to the bondage of their teachings, lies, and entanglements back with the pollution of the world's vain reasonings.

our encouragement is christ himself and he is all about grace and everything else that is his very nature, all of which we have inherited in him. 

that is what comes to mind at present.  i will ponder more ...


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 12:16am | IP Logged  

"I'm so glad God has given us all the grace we need because we have Christ!"  <-debi

truly!  a hardy AMEN to that! 




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 2:16pm | IP Logged  

In 2 Peter 3:14-18, Peter wrote:
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.


This is the section of Peter's writings where the phrase "grow in grace" is often quoted. It is also the context Sherri referred to in her excellent comments. The diligence Peter speaks of has nothing to do with the oft-preached messages by which it has been suggested that we would lose our being "found by Him..." standing, but rather it refers to watching out for those who preach such stuff. The many doctrines that have been pushed under the heading of "growing in grace" only highlight the warning that Peter gave to those he loved, for it is not only Paul's words that have been distorted by unprincipled men. No, to grow in grace is not some kind of grace program to follow, it rather describes the truth of Christ we grow in that stands in stark contrast to all the programs of man. In other words, knowing beforehand that people will come at us from all sides with their programs of Christian life secrets, we are encouraged to prepare ourselves with the determination that only in the grace of Christ do we grow.

Jim


      

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Broken Link
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 3:29pm | IP Logged  

Notice also, how Peter isn't referring to an
ethereal concept called grace that one can blow upon
another. It isn't some invisible mantle. Rather,
those teachers are more like the phony tailors
peddling the emperor some new clothes.

"Yes, I have lots of grace and faith! See how
well I faint and swoon?"


Or maybe it was just bad breath. Mentos, anyone?

Like Sherri mentioned, Peter says, "be on your
guard..." This happens, has happened, will happen.
Ignorant and unstable people will try to take this
secure position in Christ away from you, by
distorting the truth. Jesus warns the same thing,
"Many will come in my name..."

And the same warnings are used by the very same
ignorant and unstable people to warn you against
seeing beyond the distortion, beyond the illusion of
their so-called spirituality. Jesus goes on to say,
"Do not follow them."

      

Bill
theHarryTick™
heretic - n 1: a person who holds beliefs in conflict with the dogma of the church.
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luvin
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 3:57pm | IP Logged  

Sherri,

You had some very good thought and EXCELLENT reminders!

Bill, very cool thoughts. I enjoy how you notice the trickery of the vanity of the mind of man. It actually uses the true warnings themselves to get us, the chosen, to fear! Yikes!


Jim MARVELOUS reminders! Just another puzzle piece I so enjoying hearing!


Adam


Edited by luvin on Jun-16-10 at 4:00pm


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 4:51pm | IP Logged  

luvin wrote:
Sherri,

You had some very good thought and EXCELLENT reminders!

Bill, very cool thoughts. I enjoy how you notice the trickery of the vanity of the mind of man. It actually uses the true warnings themselves to get us, the chosen, to fear! Yikes!


Jim MARVELOUS reminders! Just another puzzle piece I so enjoying hearing!

Adam


Adam, thanks for your ever-present encouragement! :)

Love, Jim


      

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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 5:10pm | IP Logged  

Broken Link wrote:
Notice also, how Peter isn't referring to an ethereal concept called grace that one can blow upon another. It isn't some invisible mantle. Rather, those teachers are more like the phony tailors peddling the emperor some new clothes.

"Yes, I have lots of grace and faith! See how well I faint and swoon?"

Or maybe it was just bad breath. Mentos, anyone?

Like Sherri mentioned, Peter says, "be on your guard..." This happens, has happened, will happen. Ignorant and unstable people will try to take this secure position in Christ away from you, by distorting the truth. Jesus warns the same thing, "Many will come in my name..."

And the same warnings are used by the very same ignorant and unstable people to warn you against seeing beyond the distortion, beyond the illusion of their so-called spirituality. Jesus goes on to say, "Do not follow them."


DO NOT FOLLOW THEM!! Yes, this is exactly the point.

In referring to grace as an ethereal concept, you have hit the nail right on the head. Grace has become this thing that people pull out of their arsenal of God-stuff when it is considered appropriate. Many Christian leaders make sure to incorporate a few "grace" messages during the course of a year. I remember the leader of one of the churches I went back in the seventies to who allocated a whole month of Sunday messages to teach on grace! Sunday evenings, that is. You know, when the majority of the group did NOT come. He actually had a few good things to say, as I remember it. I asked him about why he didn't teach more, and I can't remember what he said, but I do remember that it seemed to me as if he felt his 4 Sunday evenings fulfilled some kind of a quota. In other words, he thought it was quite sufficient.

You know, grace as a concept or an obligatory teaching is nothing but bondage.

Jim


      

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luvin
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 6:39pm | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:
Broken Link wrote:
Notice also, how Peter isn't referring to an ethereal concept called grace that one can blow upon another. It isn't some invisible mantle. Rather, those teachers are more like the phony tailors peddling the emperor some new clothes.

"Yes, I have lots of grace and faith! See how well I faint and swoon?"

Or maybe it was just bad breath. Mentos, anyone?

Like Sherri mentioned, Peter says, "be on your guard..." This happens, has happened, will happen. Ignorant and unstable people will try to take this secure position in Christ away from you, by distorting the truth. Jesus warns the same thing, "Many will come in my name..."

And the same warnings are used by the very same ignorant and unstable people to warn you against seeing beyond the distortion, beyond the illusion of their so-called spirituality. Jesus goes on to say, "Do not follow them."


DO NOT FOLLOW THEM!! Yes, this is exactly the point.

In referring to grace as an ethereal concept, you have hit the nail right on the head. Grace has become this thing that people pull out of their arsenal of God-stuff when it is considered appropriate. Many Christian leaders make sure to incorporate a few "grace" messages during the course of a year. I remember the leader of one of the churches I went back in the seventies to who allocated a whole month of Sunday messages to teach on grace! Sunday evenings, that is. You know, when the majority of the group did NOT come. He actually had a few good things to say, as I remember it. I asked him about why he didn't teach more, and I can't remember what he said, but I do remember that it seemed to me as if he felt his 4 Sunday evenings fulfilled some kind of a quota. In other words, he thought it was quite sufficient.

You know, grace as a concept or an obligatory teaching is nothing but bondage.

Jim

I just wanted to comment about your comment! I was so agreeing with you about the above point you make in response to Bill's post. I was also thinking that "grace" has become a conceptual thing to the mind of man has it not?[I guess it always has..] Its meaning has just been "superfied" or "suped up" by religion that's all. As I was thinking more I was really looking at the description of Jesus as being FULL of grace and Truth. I mean, this is a saint describing the reality of God here. He describes the Christ as completely full of grace, as if He was grace in it's actual and true sense. There certainly is other forms of fleshly "grace"...geez I think half of my time is spent on things in this realm but, then there is the One who is full of grace and Truth and I sometimes have to wonder if under the spell of deception we don't miss the whole reality of Who it is that embodies the real, living thing? It is as if we attempt to define grace by looking at "it" through the shadow instead of beholding the reality and defining all things by it/Him.

Bas-Ackwards


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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mary
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 7:50pm | IP Logged  

 

     Adam,  I love it!!!  



      

Mary
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Dignz
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Posted: Jun-16-10 at 9:34pm | IP Logged  

indeed ... great stuff!  




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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mary
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 12:21pm | IP Logged  

  

      Yesterday when I came on, I was frustrated about some things that had come up on Facebook with a dear friend and sister of ours who, as I shared before, has a heart and spirit that is wide open to the truth of the good news.  She's been completely open to things that Dave and I have shared.  A sneaky law-abiding believer came on in the middle of one such discussion, and redirected her to a website led by a man who presides over it by the title of 'prophet'.  This sister has been receiving clear revelation about having a clear conscience (no sin-consciousness), and the other believer urged her to listen to the messages on 'grace' there.  This our sister did, to come back and say (to her), "yes, I'm listening to the message now!"  My heart was heavy all day, thinking that she had gotten pulled back into the shadows of what we had come out of 10 years ago.  But, Dave, watching this sceniario, sent her an in inbox message.  "_____, what did you think of the messages?"  "Well, you know, Dave, she said, "I got through about half of the first one, and I noticed he was teaching from 'sin -consciousness!"  Well, when Dave came home and conveyed this I rejoiced that she wasn't ensnared by it!

      Often, things like this aren't usually clear until I've slept a night, and then it comes so easily it seems what it was that had me so frustrated the day before.

       Galatians 4:17  "Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good.  What they want to do is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them."

       Preachers/teachers who are preaching/teaching everything BUT the 'cross and Him crucified" are doing nothing but drawing attention to themselves, and not Him!

      



      

Mary
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Dignz
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 12:50pm | IP Logged  

enjoyed that mclady!  thank you for sharing it!  i am on the run right now ... errands with our granddaughter.  perhaps later i can get back on the shovel-shack and read that again and enjoy it AGAIN!  :)  i so know how your heart must have felt ... watching someone try to suck another sibling back into the throes and woes of 'another grace' which is not really grace at all, but is in reality very much anti-christ, plain and simple. 

i send you hugs ... just 'cuz!     

"I sometimes have to wonder if under the spell of deception we don't miss the whole reality of Who it is that embodies the real, living thing? It is as if we attempt to define grace by looking at "it" through the shadow instead of beholding the reality and defining all things by it/Him." <-adam

indeed ... indeed!  most definitely.  spells of deception ... thank god that his spirit breaks through those 'spells' over and over again to reveal our true reality ... revealing himself as our life in the midst of and in spite of all the deception, lies and illusions that surround us.    enjoyed your thoughts adam. 




      

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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 1:50pm | IP Logged  

Mary! :)

I so encourages my heart to hear not only of how your sister is recognizing and shunning sin-conscious techniques but also of how your heart is lifted in the process. Thank you so much for posting this. I rejoice with you. :)

Love, Jim


      

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mary
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 2:36pm | IP Logged  

    Jim, you are ever so welcome, and I send many and BIG 's your way today! :)

    



Edited by mary on Jun-17-10 at 3:16pm


      

Mary
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Debi
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 4:44pm | IP Logged  

I appreciate everyone's comments-good stuff. Thanks.

Sherri-"our encouragement is Christ himself and he is all about grace and everything else that is his very nature, all of which we have inherited in him.  "

Jim-"In other words, knowing beforehand that people will come at us from all sides with their programs of Christian life secrets, we are encouraged to prepare ourselves with the determination that only in the grace of Christ do we grow."

Bill-"
Rather, those teachers are more like the phony tailors peddling the emperor some new clothes.... Or maybe it was just bad breath. Mentos, anyone?"

Adam-
"I was also thinking that "grace" has become a conceptual thing to the mind of man has it not?............then there is the One who is full of grace and Truth and I sometimes have to wonder if under the spell of deception we don't miss the whole reality of Who it is that embodies the real, living thing? It is as if we attempt to define grace by looking at "it" through the shadow instead of beholding the reality and defining all things by it/Him."

Mary-
"Preachers/teachers who are preaching/teaching everything BUT the 'cross and Him crucified" are doing nothing but drawing attention to themselves, and not Him! "


Since we have Christ as our life, I just looked at growing in grace as an increase of our understanding or awareness of Him, something we will just naturally do because of Him.



      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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the shovel
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 4:52pm | IP Logged  

Debi wrote:
I appreciate everyone's comments-good stuff. Thanks.

Sherri-"our encouragement is Christ himself and he is all about grace and everything else that is his very nature, all of which we have inherited in him.  "

Jim-"In other words, knowing beforehand that people will come at us from all sides with their programs of Christian life secrets, we are encouraged to prepare ourselves with the determination that only in the grace of Christ do we grow."

Bill-"
Rather, those teachers are more like the phony tailors peddling the emperor some new clothes.... Or maybe it was just bad breath. Mentos, anyone?"

Adam-
"I was also thinking that "grace" has become a conceptual thing to the mind of man has it not?............then there is the One who is full of grace and Truth and I sometimes have to wonder if under the spell of deception we don't miss the whole reality of Who it is that embodies the real, living thing? It is as if we attempt to define grace by looking at "it" through the shadow instead of beholding the reality and defining all things by it/Him."

Mary-
"Preachers/teachers who are preaching/teaching everything BUT the 'cross and Him crucified" are doing nothing but drawing attention to themselves, and not Him! "


Since we have Christ as our life, I just looked at growing in grace as an increase of our understanding or awareness of Him, something we will just naturally do because of Him.



Hello Debi! Excellent batch of quotes you have listed there. Yours fits in beautifully. :)

Jim


      

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Jun-17-10 at 5:25pm | IP Logged  

I rejoice as well in hearing of this encouragement, in each of the various ways you all have expressed it. What a blessing it is. 

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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