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Biblical Interpretation
 Shovel Shack : Biblical Interpretation
Subject Topic: everlasting destruction
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Meph55
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Posted: Aug-29-05 at 2:06am | IP Logged  

(cont.)

So, we do all come to maturity, more and more, being transformed into His image, (wow).  Realizing what a waste and a what bummer it is to focus on "doing" right vs wrong or keeping the law or those principals or whatever. 

That He's already given us a purpose, and His love drives us to LOVE.  When all looks bleak.  When the hurricane is coming, and when the aftermath is here.  And when we see Jesus being spit on.  Or, well, you know the story Seth.

So, we, my brother, are learning to LOVE and to be as HE is in this world that doesn't realize how loved it is.  And it IS loved. 

And, since He lives IN US and we live IN HIM, there is no worry about Him being faithful to that which He has started.  (Not even i could screw this up, ha cause it's all about HIM.)

We have freedom to express this LIFE we have IN HIM (which is HIM!) any way we want.  There's no "right or wrong" way to discuss His bringing us to REST in Him that involves HIS POWER and GLORY and LOVE being demonstrated to the world and to us.

We're all in the same place you are, which is HIM!  We don't want to go on as the galatians who tried to continue in the flesh.  We know it sucks, and is defeating and lame, and burns us out, etc.  We get sucked back into "trying to" do this, or that (whether keeping the law or a list of principals we wrote down from the last sermon we heard, etc.).

He is revealing HIMSELF to you and to me, more and more each day.  And showing each of us (in HIS ways, and HIS timing) that HE is enough, that we are able because HE is able, that we are "good enough" because He is our righteousness. 

That we don't have to focus on doing (ie the law) because we just get deceived (sin sinning in our flesh as i put it, cause that's just how i read Paul's words for now) and that just gets our focus on sin again, and its a vicious cycle that He knows all about.  BUT GOD knows how to get us to see the simple truth.  (And how!)

One truth He shows us (imo) is that Jesus IS the way.   

HE, being our LIFE, has planned this day for us (whether its getting up and driving to work and loving our families, or taking care of loved ones at home or of others in a hospital, or suffering a with a chronic debilitating disease or a hurricane's aftermath or whatever,

or dying in such a way that JESUS' love and grace pour out through the cries and tears and humanity and realness of simply needing a friend or a hand to hold or a comforting word or look, HE knows because He has prepared each of HIS works to do through us. 

And just as He reconciled the world through Jesus and the cross, and saved us and WILL save the others(including Dave and my and your and others' loved ones and other folks, even strangers and despots), His will will be done.

May the Lord be magnified and seen greatly in the coming days.  On the shack, in the wake of yet another hurricane, and in our lives. 

Thanks seth and all, for sharing your heart with us.  We love you and want US to see HIM (and not just get warm and fuzzy all over, hehe ).  We see Him already in you, and us, and want to see Him more.  Because He put this desire in your and our hearts.  His love compells us.

His love, dave c 

 



Edited by Meph55 on Aug-29-05 at 2:11am


      

no fear in love...
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SETH_
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Posted: Aug-29-05 at 2:37am | IP Logged  

hey dave,

how's your health? I hope He conforts you in your pain and takes it all on Himself as always. May he always keep you in this joy you live in Him always. Pray for me i'll be praying for you.

Dave i don't agree with a lot of what you said (especially the UR stuff), but I care about others because they are members of His body like me, and a member that's hurt needs to be healed, because if one member is hurt, the whole body hurts, but if a member is infected and contageous He'll cut it off so that the entire body doesnt get contaminated, the parable of the Vine and branches.

and false teachers are just that. I suffered because of tehm and seen many close ones suffer also. I pray for them and WORK at the same time to show them Christ in His purity and not mixed with other ideas.

God bless



Edited by SETH_ on Aug-29-05 at 3:12am
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mart1
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Posted: Aug-29-05 at 8:23am | IP Logged  

Meph55, thanks!  That is like a summary of the Gospel which needs to be spoken/'taught' in every 'church-building'.  But i don't think that it is right now...

Are you familiar with Charles Stanley?  To me, he is one sub-teacher/disciple who is real.
I know that he is the head of a Baptist 'church', but i hope that if i ever met him and asked him,
"Are you 'Christian/Baptist' or just Christian?", that he would tell me, "Well, of course, 'Christian' says all that needs to be said..."

I'd probly next ask him, "Do the people that you talk with every sunday and every other day know that you really believe that?"

But, God bless him...my ma is a staunch Roman Catholic, yet she receives his monthly magazine and looks forward to reading it each month (i NEVER thought that my ma would EVER read something about God that wasn't from the R.C.!)   Another cool thing about that is that it was my ex-wife who sent my ma's name in to 'In Touch' ministries for a subscription to their magazine in the first place (tho my ma still doesn't know that; she still doesn't know why she ever started getting anything from them...).

mart
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realrestisbest
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Posted: Feb-11-06 at 9:11am | IP Logged  

Dave,

I was reading this thread and it seemed like something just came to mind that seemed to give me peace about your intial inquiry about your son.

Unfortunatley, I don't recall the exact verse but I remember reading a few times God saying that if you believe your household will be saved. 

I will have to look and see where exactly in the Bible it says that but It just came to mind immediately after reading your thread.

Think about Noah and his family and Lot and his family.  God told Noah to take his family and gather all the animals.  Now God ONLY talked to Noah at least that's what it seems like.

And I think Lot is the guy that God told him to take his family and leave that city Soddom and Gommorah.  And it also appeared that he told just Lot and he got his family and left.

Now in saying that God says that you and your family will be saved if one believes I'm not sure how that all works out but, I just remember it being said so I hope this gives you some peace Brother.

Real

Update: Here are some of the verses I could find, now I must admit that I did not read the chapter competley so give me your thoughts on these.

Acts 16:31 "They replied believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved and you and your household will be saved"

Acts 11:14

Sorry I don't have time to write that one out my little one is awake now!!!

Peace and blessings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edited by realrestisbest on Feb-11-06 at 9:19am
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libertybelle
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Posted: Feb-11-06 at 11:27am | IP Logged  

Realrestisbest, Do you mean John 4:53? "So the father knew it was the same hour in which Jesus said to him, 'Your son lives.' And he himself believed and his whole household."

I use an online concordance in which you can type a word or two, or a phrase, from the Scripture you're looking for, and it'll give you every Scripture in the Bible that contains that word(s). It also offers various translations of the Bible. It's pretty helpful to me.

www.blueletterbible.org


      

Psalm 119:45 - "I walk in liberty, for I seek Your teachings."

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luvin
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Posted: Feb-11-06 at 11:28am | IP Logged  

would be a great Q A question!

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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dave
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Posted: Feb-13-06 at 12:18am | IP Logged  

Hey, thanks Real...I appreciate your encouragement.  I guess anything is possible to him that believes!  Ummm....that sounds like a verse I know too  I wonder why Jesus said that??  Maybe for ones like me who are worried about their son's salvation.
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Meph55
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Posted: Feb-14-06 at 1:16am | IP Logged  

hi

an almost flawless figure ice-skating performance by a russian couple, "a time for us" accompanying their breathless spins and landings.  they had come from a year of some hard spills and a major fall where she had fallen from the top of his skyward lift - down like a rock.  she, landing smack on the top of her head, right on the very hard ice, becoming a limp ragdoll, grounded and cried over - major concussion, unconcious, for quite a while. 

Later, she remembered nothing.  He did.  She was ready to do it all, again, as soon as possible, as soon as she recovered; but he, all those memories nagging, guiltily chiding him.  Her fall, fully in his mind's view, every time he started to lift her up.  slowing him, his arms were made of lead, his guilt-led motions were like careful, awkward crawling out of quicksand.  but he finally really attempted to do it, again, and he did 'it', that lifting, and spinning, and gliding, and holding her up to the sky, again.  And in that practice, they finally did it. and they did it again and again.  So NOW, at the Olympics, they did it again!  Almost flawlessly!

when i think of what Jesus did on the cross for the whole world, though they say he would have done it just for me.  but i disagree a little, ha!, cause i can tell now after all he's brought me through and all the love he's given me that he and his father would never limit their love to just me, not even to bring me to tears or just to fulfill a seemingly beautiful hypothetic story, ha!  Rather, he took me from death (and destruction), and lifted me to the sky.  And he did it for the whole world too (though most may not realize it yet, it's foolishness to them, now).  He won more than the gold, when he rose again.   Cause he is soo very flawless! 

i just looked up again, and saw a chinese couple.  he threw her like a dove up into the air, she came down flat on her knee or something; legs flailing as she flew backward into the rink's wall.  Somehow, through pain that had her crying and having to stop the music, and getting off the ice, and then getting back on after rubbing her knee and being seen by a medic.  Slowly, fighting off the pain, she got back, fought her way back into it. 

And they finished from where she had fallen, an almost flawless performance!  Scores were totalled.  AHHH, the first couple (from Russia) had won the gold!  The second couple (from China) got the silver!  Jesus (coupled with all of us) got spat on and a sword dug in his side and laughed at and jeered.  "Yeah, right, you can't even save yourself, hah!"  But, Father, hidden in the invisibility of God, was so pleased with our brother, the only one who knows us like he knows us. 

Even before his perfectly flawless work of the cross.  In him I AM well pleased.  For me, it's not about heaven and "hell", everlasting or temporary destruction. (or UR or US, or Arminian, Calvin thought).  Or about this or that forum's focus or needing anyone to agree, cause real unity in him is all that matters and he will bring it about; even if it means changing my thoughts and transforming me more into his image.  it's all about our Father's love, and his satisfaction with his flawless son.  That's where i am, that's what i get out of this LIFE that lives in me.  Despite the fleshes weakness, and the conquered self that pretends to be alive.  He didn't meet a standard of love, by which we can measure and hold our hands out and say "this much", no more.  HE IS LOVE.  And he holds me and you up, and he holds all of our loved ones up, and he holds those all throughout history and all the strangers around the world, most of them clueless by his "command".  Lifting us all up, high, above the hard, non-forgiving, ice of death and condemnation.  Spinning and twisting and rejoicing, cause one day, we'll all know.  Til then, we can try to convince the others that the cross isn't a joke and that they're already reconciled, God's not mad at them.  And he wouldn't let ANY of our children or others fall.

That's security, in the arms of a worthy Partner.  Skilled far greater than the talent he gives.  flawless.  Throwing us into the air, seating us besides himself, perfect score.  Accepted.

fall-less.  like a deer's feet on mountain rocks.  like a house built on a rock.  even better.

HIS love, dave c.  ps floating above the pain, defying gravity, in his palms engraved by flawless love.  we await the day, when all will be free to know the freedom, they already have.

His LOVE, dave c.   'a time for us' is now.  today.

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Meph55
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Posted: Feb-14-06 at 1:26am | IP Logged  

let's get to page 7! 
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dave
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Dave C.!!!!!!

You spoke to my heart bro!  Thank you so much for those words.  Such confidence in His love.  I admire that in you.  If there is one thing that I desire to have more of....it would be confidence in His love.  Thanks again.

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realrestisbest
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Posted: Feb-14-06 at 8:57am | IP Logged  

Dave,

To kind of follow up on what I wrote earlier.  And this is just my opinion but because you know God and he lives in you I think your son will notice that.  And I'm sure he will be drawn to Jesus because of the life that he sees in you. 

Honestly, I'm not sure how it all works.  But just trust God that he is able to make things as they should be.  I grew up in a household where my great grandfather was a pastor and I turned my back on my families church.  But it didn't stop God from introducing himself to me.  And I never thought back in my high school days that I would be a Christian.  It just happened.  But praise God that HE took the intiative to rescue me.

I have confidence and hope that God loves you and your family so much that he will introduce himself to your son as well.  And because you know God and not religion I'm sure your son will see the REAL jesus and who could turn down life from such a loving Lord.

Just some thoughts

Real
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luvin
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Posted: Jul-05-10 at 11:11am | IP Logged  

dave wrote:

Hey everyone.  I have a question and would like to hear from you all.  I am soaking in God's grace and I appreciate all of your perspectives.  So here is my question.  Well, let me quote the verse first.  "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.  They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power."- 2Thes. 1:9.  So if Salvation is by Grace, God's choice, then who are these that will be punished.  And if these are punished why didn't God in all of His grace save them?  I am very confused.  Let me tell you why this question is so very important to me.  It is not a doctrinal question where I want the right answer with scriptual proof.  It is a question that comes close to my heart because I just had my first son.  Now, if God chooses who is saved and not then I cannot rest in peace because I would not know if my son would be saved or not.  But, I know in my heart this cannot be because God is just not like that.  However, I do no some will perish according to the Bible but why they do and not others is beyond me.  So the thing that I want to know from all of you with kids is how do you know for certain that your child will have the Life of Christ?  Because if I cannot know for certain that my son will be saved then Christianity is just BOGUS because it has to give us assurance especially for the ones we love.  Do you see my dilemma?  O.k. I know there are those who believe all are alive in Christ but I do not read that from Scripture.  So if you give me that answer you will have to convince me of what this verse and multitudes mean that talk about destruction, being dead in sin, and so on and so forth.  Well, i hope this is not too confusing.


Yes, another resurrected post from long ago. I read this wonderful life filled["life filled" because the life in him was questioning the old dead interps we learned in the world] questioning of Dave's and wondered to myself if maybe the destruction that the apostles often referred to was something that was already upon the unbelieving and the deceivers. Anything future would only reveal what was already there.



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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