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Personal IC experiences
 Shovel Shack : Personal IC experiences
Subject Topic: mormons
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rickh
Shackaholic
Shackaholic


Joined: Feb-07-07
Location: United States
Posts: 500
Posted: Mar-26-10 at 8:37am | IP Logged  

I was curious to what anyone knew about the mormon church. I had to sisters come over a couple of times and try to convert me. They seem pretty steadfast in their belief. I told them what I believed but get frustrated when I can't quite verbalize my convictions. I'm not converting. Don't worry, I'm not converting. But I'm willing to speak to anyone anytime about the life of Christ. I didn't feel comfortable trying to convert them to my way of thinking but didn't mind expressing my views.   They believe John Smith got baptized by apostles in 1823 to be an authority and ressurect the church of Christ and said there are 3 levels of heaven when we die. best, good, and bad. Just curious what others knew or thought. Thanks.

      

rick
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nyagali
Extreme Digger
Extreme Digger


Joined: Apr-03-07
Location: Canada
Posts: 323
Posted: Mar-26-10 at 12:24pm | IP Logged  

I don't know exactly, but like others, Jesus is a
messenger, God's Son to show us the way.

I love to share my story of a good friend who was a
Mormon. She was going through an abusive marriage
and one day one of their missionaries came to her
home and laid his hand on her head and told her that
God loved her. It was the first time in her whole
life she'd ever heard that, and you know our God! He
broke through to her in a real way! She said she
felt that through her whole body! Someone at work
invited her to church and I got to know her and
years later neither of us are in church and all
three of her children are believers! She never went
through a typical evangelical conversion experience,
but I know she is my sister!

Friends of ours just had them at their door and she
said she just kept her focus on Jesus even though
they want to talk about God and show you their way
with their Bible. Wasn't Ron a Mormon?
joy

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Tim P
Shackaholic
Shackaholic


Joined: Mar-19-07
Location: United States
Posts: 708
Posted: Mar-26-10 at 1:11pm | IP Logged  

I think Bill Lincoln came out of that background.  Maybe he will see this and respond.
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HarryTick
Extreme Digger
Extreme Digger


Joined: Dec-07-05
Location: United States
Posts: 186
Posted: Mar-26-10 at 5:11pm | IP Logged  

Yes, I was raised in the LDS Church.

I'm very removed from anything current with the church. I can tell you the basics I was taught while I was growing up.

The claim is that in 1823, Joseph Smith had a vision of God and Jesus. Later, he had another vision of an angel named "Moroni" who told him about gold plates buried in a hill nearby. Joseph was later given the plates and translated them, through divine revelation, into the Book of Mormon. During the translation of the book, the church claims that Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, who was helping translate at the time, prayed to God about baptism. They were visited and baptized by John the Baptist in a nearby river. In 1830, the church was officially formed and eventually had 12 apostles appointed. The LDS church claims this as the same organization Jesus established.

The three kingdoms, Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial kingdoms are based on a level of devotion, if you will. Telestial is for "good" people (and "bad" Mormons), and is so beautiful, according to Smith, that we would kill ourselves just to get there. The other two kingdoms are for varying levels of belief and performance. Those who obtain the highest kingdom, the Celestial, get to become Gods and create their own worlds.

Synopsis version only.

      

Love,
Bill
theHarryTick™

heretic - n 1: a person who holds beliefs in conflict with the dogma of churches.
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rickh
Shackaholic
Shackaholic


Joined: Feb-07-07
Location: United States
Posts: 500
Posted: Mar-26-10 at 8:59pm | IP Logged  

Thanks Bill. Could it be that any of this is true?



Edited by rickh on Mar-27-10 at 8:16am


      

rick
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the shovel
Shackmeister
Shackmeister


Joined: Oct-01-01
Location: United States
Posts: 4187
Posted: Mar-27-10 at 8:20am | IP Logged  

rickh wrote:
Thanks Bill. Could it be that any of this is true?


Yes, Joseph Smith was a real man. Furthermore, it is true that he established a new religion. :)


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Mar-27-10 at 8:35am | IP Logged  

rickh wrote:
Thanks Bill. Could it be that any of this is true?




Yes it "seems" that way according to the "senses" huh? Then again I have "believed" far worse according to the senses in the past!

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Mar-27-10 at 8:36am | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:

rickh wrote:
Thanks Bill. Could it be that any of this is true?
Yes, Joseph Smith was a real man. Furthermore, it is true that he established a new religion. :)





      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Broken Link
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Mar-11-02
Location: United States
Posts: 2513
Posted: Mar-27-10 at 8:57am | IP Logged  

Rick,

Is there a hook to the whole thing? I guess it would
be the community. As a member of the LDS, the
membership defines your life away from work. Growing
up in it, the majority of my family's social contact
came from the church.

The belief is generated from a mutual reinforcement
of the "truth" of the story, through testimony. A
"burning in the bosom" being the identification of
the Holy Ghost bearing witness. If they WANT to
believe it and are given the mechanism to personally
identify the truth of it without verifying any
facts, then it becomes true simply because they want
it to.

The legal historical record pretty much demonstrates
that Smith's character is misrepresented by the
church today. He was, like most church starters,
very charismatic and played it as divine selection
and communication. The facts are generally portrayed
by the church as being "anti-mormon", intended to
deceive people about the church, even directly
attributing them to Satanic attack against the
church.

I posted my perspective of coming out of that
environment a while back in my
"corner" thread.

      

Bill
theHarryTick™
heretic - n 1: a person who holds beliefs in conflict with the dogma of the church.
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4Rebeccaenm
Digger
Digger


Joined: May-24-09
Location: United States
Posts: 40
Posted: Mar-28-10 at 9:50am | IP Logged  

Me too! I was raised in Salt Lake City, Utah. My great grandparents were polygamists who relocated with Brigham Young on the wagon train… In Utah, it's more than a religion. It's a culture, an identity. There are Mormons the way there are "Yankees" or "Jews" it's more about who they are than what they believe. Many don't even really know the churches history or beliefs.

   Consider Joy's friend, who responded to hearing of God's love. That would be real in my book, even if the message came to her from suits on ten-speeds. I pay little mind to the things that they believe that are wrong. What matters is who believes in them, and he's right. They're talking about God and they love their version of him. Isn't that what we all do?

    Becki



Edited by 4Rebeccaenm on Mar-28-10 at 9:51am
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mary
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Mar-03-02
Location: United States
Posts: 1942
Posted: Mar-29-10 at 1:41pm | IP Logged  


Bill,

I read your story and came upon your poem.

Longing
 

For the Fire of one who fights with me,
For the Peace of one who speaks with me,
For the Ears of one who listens me,
For the Heart of one who loves me.

For the Feet of one who walks with me,
For the Hands of one who works with me,
For the Eyes of one who watches me,
For the Heart of one who loves me.

For the Arms of one who holds me,
For the Lips of one who kisses me,
For the Warmth of one who sleeps with me,
For the Heart of one who loves me.

 For those who continue to find the seperations, frustrations, and condemnations of religion that never connects, and never satisfies,  I hope you don't mind, I am re-posting.... I LOVE THIS!



      

Mary
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Spike390
Digger
Digger


Joined: Jun-12-10
Location: United States
Posts: 1
Posted: Jun-12-10 at 1:18pm | IP Logged  

Hey Rick!
Actually Jim (The Shovel) and I, many years ago, spent many hours meeting once a week with a Morman family and two of their elders. The Morman family had the best dinners, that was mostly homegrown and prepared!
I remember the key issue was the diety of Christ. The section of scripture that really stymied the elders was Colossians ,

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:9 KJV (didn't have my NIV handy...)

I found the Church of Latter Day Saints faith, intriguing and the Book of Morman intensly interesting.



Edited by Spike390 on Jun-12-10 at 1:21pm


      

S P I K E
Isaiah 40:31
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Dignz
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Jul-18-06
Location: United States
Posts: 1816
Posted: Jun-13-10 at 10:03am | IP Logged  

hey jp!    lovely to see ya!  how are you and yours?     catch us up sometime. 

i so love that you brought up colossians 2!  awesome stuff!  i just quickly read through it.  it is sooo encouraging!  the whole chapter is awesome!  i am going to post it here for quick reference and some encouragement.    i will post it kind of in letter form, which is how it was originally intended from paul and timothy affectionately to those in christ who were in Colossae at the time.

"For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.  I say this so that no one will delude you with persuasive argument.  For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.  Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.  See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.  Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.  If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!" (which all refer to things destined to perish with use) in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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luvin
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: May-20-02
Location: United States
Posts: 5235
Posted: Jun-13-10 at 10:56am | IP Logged  

Sherri thanks for putting this letter out here for us.


"..the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."

Here we are back at DUNG again.[aka: "no value"] The flesh lives in accordance with pride, so how can it honestly even have humility?


Great stuff Dignz.


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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mcdave
Shackaddict
Shackaddict


Joined: Dec-25-01
Location: United States
Posts: 1809
Posted: Jun-13-10 at 10:57am | IP Logged  



      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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csnarnia
Extreme Digger
Extreme Digger


Joined: May-25-05
Location: United States
Posts: 189
Posted: Jul-31-10 at 11:44pm | IP Logged  

I do believe that there are many people in the LDS
who are true believers in Jesus Christ, but have
been misled and confused by the Mormon teachings.

As one who has been the object of a mormon's
conversion attempts I have learned the following.
They do teach (I believe in their book of "Doctrines
and Covenants) that if one shed's his own blood when
he dies he will be saved...What does that say about
their (Mormon doctrine) faith in Jesus? That's why
the state of Utah executes criminals by firing
squad. The particular missionary that was trying to
convert me was certain that Jesus' greatest
suffering was in the garden, not the cross when he
was separated from the father. What does that say
about his understanding of relationship and who
Jesus is?

The LDS do not recognize Jesus as God who became
flesh, but a man who became a God. He is no better
than us...just got an earlier start.

Their so called "Book of Abraham" has been
discredited and proven to be a hoax perpetrated by
Joseph Smith...read this link:
[URL=http://www.bookofabraham.com/]

In my opinion, the difference between Islam, Buddha
and Mormons is a matter of degrees...not much
difference. It's about power and control over
women.

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