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Biblical Interpretation
 Shovel Shack : Biblical Interpretation
Subject Topic: Galatians 6 confusion
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Freedom_Fighter
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Posted: Sep-30-10 at 12:50pm | IP Logged  

Hi everyone,

God has been opening my eyes lately to see who i really am in Christ, and it has been very freeing and refreshing. As I was reading the letter to the Galatians, just love that letter,I was getting more and more excited and then i come to the last chapter.

Galatians 6: 1-2.

1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

While most of the letter paul is telling them that they are not under the law and they free in Christ, He comes with this statement which to me seems like he is using a measuring stick, and promoting the "keeping each other accountable". I would love to hear your guys thought on this.

Thanks

In Him

 

 

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Dignz
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Posted: Sep-30-10 at 3:19pm | IP Logged  

hello freedom fighter ~  cool name ~ 

i will take a quick shot at this - someone will have to let me know if i am off track or whatever. 

what do we know gives strength to sin?  it is the law, right?  so really, the brother is caught up in law.  how might we be 'tempted' in our attempts to restore the brother or sister back to grace reality?  perhaps by falling prey to getting caught up in the law again? 

what is 'fulfilling the law of christ'?  i think it is love, right?  and so we are loving the brother or sister in our attempts to restore them to the grace of god in christ jesus, from where they began in the first place.  it doesn't always mean we will be 'successful' at restoring them, but we are successful in christ and in his love. 

is that helpful at all? 

very nice to have you around. 




Edited by Dignz on Sep-30-10 at 3:23pm


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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the shovel
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Posted: Sep-30-10 at 4:00pm | IP Logged  

Welcome to the Shovel Shack, Freedom Fighter!  

Yes, that passage snagged me for a long time as well, although I am certain that the original audience didn't view it the way many of us have in our modern world. I think Dignz has captured the appropriate understanding of this statement. If you consider how Paul spoke to the Galatians earlier in this same letter about biting and devouring one another in their foolishness, it makes so much sense that he would bring attention to how to deal with one another when they see someone breaking a law. Rather than presenting a performance accountability scenario, Paul turned the tables on their foolish legal dealings. I've seen the wording in some translations start with "Even if a man is caught in any trespass..." He brought the whole reality of the grace of Christ to bear upon their everyday life with one another so as to highlight the amazing difference between the bite-and-devour approach that had side-tracked them from walking in love.

Furthering what Dignz pointed out above, trespasses are intricately connected with the Law, for one cannot trespass where there is no law. So rather than establishing a measuring stick, Paul was demanding that they not fall back upon the measuring stick to deal with one another.

Jim


      

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luvin
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Posted: Sep-30-10 at 10:18pm | IP Logged  

Freedom_Fighter wrote:

Hi everyone,


God has been opening my eyes lately to see who i
really am in Christ, and it has been very freeing
and refreshing. As I was reading the letter to the
Galatians, just love that letter,I was getting more
and more excited and then i come to the last
chapter.


Galatians 6: 1-2.


<SUP>1</SUP>Brothers, if
someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual
should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or
you also may be tempted. <SUP id=en-NIV-29175
=versenum>2</SUP>Carry each
other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill
the law of Christ.


While most of the letter paul is telling them
that they are not under the law and they free in
Christ, He comes with this statement which to me
seems like he is using a measuring stick, and
promoting the "keeping each other accountable". I
would love to hear your guys thought on this.


Thanks


In Him


 


 



You know, I have been reading in Romans lately and I
almost wonder if Paul really just uses 'human'
examples and language to get his point across to
those SO caught up in laws? I mean it seems to be no
mistake for Paul to use a term like "the law of
Christ' after just talking so much about the law of
Moses and not being alive to it or obligated to it
any longer. Restoring someone according to Life IS
foreign to us[or to what we are constantly hearing
in the world and our religions] who were once in the
flesh but, are
now alive in Christ.,so it is understandable that
you ask the question! The language is a little
screwy only because he probably meant it to be. Just
not screwy to THEM. Just some thoughts of mine to
contribute.


A

Edited by luvin on Sep-30-10 at 10:27pm


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 12:30am | IP Logged  

"what is 'fulfilling the law of christ'? i think it
is love, right? and so we are loving the brother or
sister in our attempts to restore them to the grace
of god in christ jesus, from where they began in the
first place. "-Dignz


Sher I really liked that.

I wonder if you might go on a bit more about this..

" it doesn't always mean we will be 'successful' at
restoring them, but we ARE SUCCESSFUL in christ and
in his love."

I wonder if you could clarify what you meant.[just
for me]

Love A

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 1:23am | IP Logged  

meaning it as encouragement in the sense that as we, and when we attempt to 'restore' others from their bondage of thought, and they perhaps are not receptive to the restoration of their minds ... at least not when and as we may have hoped ... we need not feel 'unsuccessful' or as 'failures'.  success or failure is not the issue.  the issue is the heart ... the heart that loves and is not dependent upon, nor diluted by any perceived 'success' or 'failure'.

i don't know if that makes any sense right now ... i am supposed to be in bed sleeping!       but ...

i will try to get back to this ...  no promises.            




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 8:19am | IP Logged  

" the issue is the heart ... the heart that loves
and is not dependent upon, nor diluted by any
perceived 'success' or 'failure'."-Dignz

Hmm, yes I like were you went with that! For it's
according to life and not that former bondage we
were in. It IS all too easy to return to that sense
of 'failure' or 'success' when in those times of
relating Christ to another.[I can attest to that]
Especially when influenced by that other persons
bondage..for you can easily begin to see YOURSELF in
the same bondage through the non receptiveness of
the other party can't you?


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Connie
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 9:45am | IP Logged  

luvin wrote:
" the issue is the heart ... the heart that loves
and is not dependent upon, nor diluted by any
perceived 'success' or 'failure'."-Dignz

Hmm, yes I like were you went with that! For it's
according to life and not that former bondage we
were in. It IS all too easy to return to that sense
of 'failure' or 'success' when in those times of
relating Christ to another.[I can attest to that]
Especially when influenced by that other persons
bondage..for you can easily begin to see YOURSELF in
the same bondage through the non receptiveness of
the other party can't you?

This is wonderful, this exchange you two gave.

The temptation to sin that Galatians is talking about is just that: that drawing, that luring back into that legal mindset where everything, everyone is judged by that black/white mentality of the law. To relate to each other according to life is so threatening to people sometimes because it deals with the real "you" and not the thing that was done or said. Relating in life can be scary and uncomfortable and real and most don't want to go there. Legal relating is neater, less messy and keeps the real issues,the real heart hidden from view.



      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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Connie
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 9:54am | IP Logged  

I think that is why Paul said there is no law against the fruits of the spirit. Those are our "tools" to help us live and rules aren't needed anymore. A heart that has been set free shows itself in these fruits. They are not only the indicators that Christ is there, but are the powers to overcome death where it's trying to work.

 



      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 10:13am | IP Logged  

"The temptation to sin that Galatians is talking
about is just that: that drawing, that luring back
into that legal mindset where everything, everyone
is judged by that black/white mentality of the law.
To relate to each other according to life is so
threatening to people sometimes because it deals
with the real "you" and not the thing that was done
or said. Relating in life can be scary and
uncomfortable and real and most don't want to go
there. Legal relating is neater, less messy and
keeps the real issues,the real heart hidden from
view."-connie


Man, that's so true isn't it Connie? I mean, I was
thinking this morning about how it is so easy to
just hide behind the fake stuff of the world. I was
in the midst of thinking about the religious
'apologies' we learned in the i.c. of 'getting
right' with our brother when we have a falling out.
I was thinking about the 'get off the hook'
mentality that produces instead of the heart of Love
Christ came and brought that is already in us. The
other just keeps the heart OUT of it and keeps a
distance between the two parties. Keeps it 'clean' and formal...and religiously technical.

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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the shovel
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 12:06pm | IP Logged  

Wow, these posts are so full of life! :)

Jim


      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-02-10 at 11:44am | IP Logged  

adam  ~ connie bright light

enjoyed reading your posts and hearing your hearts ... very much!  thank you so much for taking the time to share them.  i know we read threads and posts and then our hearts and minds go off and ponder for a while and then life takes us off on other things and we don't really get to share as much as we would like.  so i reahhhhlly appreciate it when you can and do share!  it is the only way we hear from one another and it really means a LOT, even if we, too can not 'get back to you' on it.  hearing from you guys encourages us and supports our hearts and minds together. 

just sendin' hugs       


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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mary
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Posted: Oct-02-10 at 1:10pm | IP Logged  


   Hello Freedom Fighter, and welcome to the Shack.

    Pardon me while I check in for a quick moment and say a quick, "LOVE" to Jim's post - refreshes me!


      

Mary
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Connie
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Posted: Oct-02-10 at 8:51pm | IP Logged  

Thanks, Sherri,  back atcha!

      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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Freedom_Fighter
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Posted: Oct-05-10 at 3:31pm | IP Logged  

 

Thanks for your replies guys. They are all full of life.I have another question and would like your guys' input, reading @ some of the threads and Jim's shovel letters, it seems that we as people alive in Christ cannot sin anymore. I understand that, especially since we are not under the law anymore, and apart from the law sin is dead. What happens to the mistakes we make, for example if I lie to the people around me, is that sin or just a mistake?? Do i change or ask God to help me since i cannot change myself?? I hope this makes sense to you guys.

In Him

 

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Engineer
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Posted: Oct-05-10 at 5:35pm | IP Logged  

FF,

Your question makes perfect sense.  I am anxious to hear everyones input as well!

I agree that we alive in Christ cannot sin.

Worldly actions have worldly consequences.  I haven't noticed God stepping in and changing that much.  If I lie to everyone eventually that will catch up to me and there will be a loss of trust with those people etc.  I have often wondered about Adam and Eve in the garden before the fall.  Could they lie to each other?  Did their emotions cause harsh words that we would consider sin today?  I think that they were capable of the same "evil" that we are today but before the fall they could not judge things as good and evil.  Where there was no law there could be no sin...  I wonder if we are living in a similar state today?

I know that I cannot keep the law yet I believe that the law shows us who God is, his goodness and purity, his love.  I don't think that God desires for me to do things that go against his nature and yet I do.  I think that God is under no illusions about who I am but I struggle with the illusion that somehow I will become righteous without him.  The only righteousness is his righteousness.

He must be changing me because all my attempts to change myself have ended in failure.

 

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Dave S
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Freedom_Fighter wrote:

 

Thanks for your replies guys. They are all full of life.TRUE VERY,VERY TRUE.   I have another question and would like your guys' input, reading @ some of the threads and Jim's shovel letters, it seems that we as people alive in Christ cannot sin anymore. TRUE AGAIN    I understand that, especially since we are not under the law anymore, AMEN  and apart from the law sin is dead. OH YES!!   What happens to the mistakes we make,WE DON'T MAKE MISTAKES BUT CAN BE TEMPTED for example if I lie to the people around me, FIRSTLY, YOU ARE LIED TOO, YOU ARE TOLD THAT THERE MAY BE AN "ADVANTAGE" IN LYING IN A GIVEN SITUATION   is that sin or just a mistake?? IT'S JUST A LIE, AS IS THE THOUGHT THAT YOU MAY NEED TO FORM AN "ADVANTAGE". Do i change or ask God to help me since i cannot change myself?? CHANGE WILL BE INEVITABLE IN CHRIST, AND WE BECOME ABLE TO SEE THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY LIVE LIFE WITHOUT HAVING TO LAY HOLD UPON THOSE OLD "ADVANTAGES" THAT WE ONCE THOUGHT WERE NEEDFUL. THE OLD MAN MAKES AN APPEARANCE OF STRENGTH, BUT GREATER IS HE THAT IS WITHIN US. I hope this makes sense to you guys. PERFECTLY

In Him

 

 

Dave S XXXXXXX

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luvin
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VERY nice word my friend DAVE.

Edited by luvin on Oct-05-10 at 6:55pm


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Connie
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Posted: Oct-05-10 at 8:02pm | IP Logged  

I always get something out of what Dave S shares. LIsten to this man, for he speaks words of life! :)

      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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mcdave
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    Dave S and Freedomfighter wrote:
    "Do i change or ask God to help me since i cannot change myself??" CHANGE WILL BE INEVITABLE IN CHRIST, AND WE BECOME ABLE TO SEE THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY LIVE LIFE WITHOUT HAVING TO LAY HOLD UPON THOSE OLD "ADVANTAGES" THAT WE ONCE THOUGHT WERE NEEDFUL. THE OLD MAN MAKES AN APPEARANCE OF STRENGTH, BUT GREATER IS HE THAT IS WITHIN US.

 ______________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________

 This to me is the heart of all we struggle with.We think that somehow WE can do something to change,to make ourselves right in Gods eyes.It always comes back to the tree of knowledge of good and evil,if we think we can choose the good, the battle is already lost,if we recognize that in Christ we have already partaken of the tree of Life and rest in what he has done in us,we can see that change is not only inevitable in Christ, it has already been done.


      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-09-10 at 8:28pm | IP Logged  

great thread ... enjoying all your posts so much ... thank you so much for your encouragement ... outstanding!  does a heart good!!






      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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HarryTick
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Posted: Oct-10-10 at 9:07pm | IP Logged  

Engineer wrote:

I know that I cannot keep the law yet I believe that the law shows us who God is, his goodness and purity, his love.  I don't think that God desires for me to do things that go against his nature and yet I do.  I think that God is under no illusions about who I am but I struggle with the illusion that somehow I will become righteous without him.  The only righteousness is his righteousness.


I thought Jesus showed us God, and that the Spirit witnesses to us of who God is? The law was a temporary instructor, a substitute teacher, who only stays as long as the teacher is absent. We did not learn God's nature from the law, we learned that we were incapable of breaking free from our bondage. For if the law had been able to bring us to God, it would have.



      

Love,
Bill
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heretic - n 1: a person who holds beliefs in conflict with the dogma of churches.
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Engineer
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HarryTick wrote:
Engineer wrote:

I know that I cannot keep the law yet I believe that the law shows us who God is, his goodness and purity, his love.  I don't think that God desires for me to do things that go against his nature and yet I do.  I think that God is under no illusions about who I am but I struggle with the illusion that somehow I will become righteous without him.  The only righteousness is his righteousness.


I thought Jesus showed us God, and that the Spirit witnesses to us of who God is? The law was a temporary instructor, a substitute teacher, who only stays as long as the teacher is absent. We did not learn God's nature from the law, we learned that we were incapable of breaking free from our bondage. For if the law had been able to bring us to God, it would have.

Your right Bill!

This has been a great thread.   It goes perfectly with the latest Spoonful.

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Debi
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Posted: Oct-23-10 at 10:44pm | IP Logged  

Sitting here while it's raining and a lot cooler (45) than it was the other day (75), I'll chime in here a bit  late (as I didn't have time to post when this topic started) with some jumbled thoughts I hope make some sense.

I'll agree with Sherri about all the great encouraging posts-enjoyed them.

The topic of whether we still sin kept coming up with some people we had been meeting with for a few years. One of them said that it is obvious we still sin as there are so many places in the NT where it encourages and exhorts believers not to sin and how to deal with other believers that are sinning.

Well, I think it's been explained well in this thread why Christians would see themselves as sinning-that which Christ already dealt with and remembers no more.

I saved some quotes from Jim's writings that really helped me:

And as long as you insist on seeing yourself according to the flesh (or live by laws) you will continue to see sin in yourself.

We live KNOWING THAT THE WAY HE SEES US IS THE REALITY OF OUR EXISTENCE!

and I like what you added Jim:

So rather than establishing a measuring stick, Paul was demanding that they not fall back upon the measuring stick to deal with one another.

Jim says to look beyond the objections to the "real stuff" or the reasons for the objections.

The flesh comes up with so many objections. What's behind them? -Fear, protecting/justifying everything that has been done in the flesh.

Jim wrote: If someone is truly alive then the good news of Christ's freedom is the only reality that can break through.

Yes, they just have not been made to see yet with spiritual eyes the truth of this. And it's going to be in God's timing, not ours.

Someone questioning will hopefully see the conflict going on within them and ask, "Who will set me free from this body of this death?" and find victory like in Romans 8 and say, "Thanks be to God by Jesus Christ our Lord!"

And like Jim said in "Living As One Who is Alive", how could we present ourselves to Christ, or like in Romans 12:1 see ourselves as a living sacrifice, acceptable to God, if we see ourselves as sinning?

Freedom Fighter asked about mistakes. Can't improve on what Dave S. said but I'll add: How can we think we are making mistakes when God causes all things to work together for good to conform us to Christ? Any weaknesses we have God uses to show His strength. Otherwise, we get into evaluating and judging our actions "good" or "bad".

Anyway, we weren't able to continue meeting with this group because they basically felt we had gone off the deep end. They said it's their flesh that sins and they aren't their flesh-but doesn't Gal. 5:24 say our flesh was crucified? How can we really separate ourselves from our flesh? It starts the judgment thing-anything I judge "good" is the real me, anything I judge "bad" is the flesh?? The finale was when they said, enough of this "in Christ" stuff, let's gets to the "meat". We thought we had been.

A great concluding remark on the subject from Jim:

Can a believer sin (miss) anymore? I can't disagree with someone else's affirmation, because to them it IS the only truth that makes sense, and it can be verified by a written code and the violations thereof--only it's ANOTHER gospel. After all, if one's answer is "yes" it must be found in the law of sin and death. However, the good news of Christ declares the removal of all that offends, so that there is nothing to miss in Christ!!





      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-24-10 at 11:49am | IP Logged  

"How can we think we are making mistakes when God causes all things to work together for good to conform us to Christ? Any weaknesses we have God uses to show His strength. Otherwise, we get into evaluating and judging our actions 'good' or 'bad'."

good point!   

i may be missing something in saying this, but i am wondering: isn't that
our automatic, built-in blessing and privilege in our very real, true and eternal relationship with god.  i mean, i think it is uncomfortable for us when we have hopes and unrealistic expectations of having that same benefit in, with and from the world.  i think that is where our disappointment really eats our lunch, so-to-speak.  i think we tend to get it all mixed up.  because of the distraction from the deep-seated disappointments from our unrealistic expectations, we project all that onto and into our relationship with god as if that is the kind of relationship we have with him and each other.  know what i mean?  it is kind of a cruel thing we do to ourselves and each other, ... effecting how we view, treat and function with others and ourselves.

i dunno ... i have to think about that some more ... it is just on my mind at the moment ...




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Connie
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Posted: Oct-24-10 at 1:26pm | IP Logged  

Hi Debi,

I liked what you said here:

"How can we think we are making mistakes when God causes all things to work together for good to conform us to Christ? Any weaknesses we have God uses to show His strength. Otherwise, we get into evaluating and judging our actions "good" or "bad"."

It's taking me a whole lot of time to see that powerful strength, but it never fails. What it really does come down to in the end, for me at least, is that I MUST be in remembrance that I am in Him, and in Him is no sin. In this "place" everything is made to work to my good. Getting my heart's attention on something other than that one truth invariably leads me into a maze of pain and self doubt that puts me in a tailspin. Although the tailspin will work itself out in me eventually, when it stops, I'm still left with the knowledge of God and see goodness and grace. It's "positive thinking" at its best,,,hey it's the mind of Christ setting my thoughts on things above.  and boy can I use that! This ol' world is so sad and desperate. I hate living in that mindset. All it does is bring me down, man! LOL

Another thing I've noticed about the mind of Christ is that He doesn't gloss things over. If in my heart and emotions there exist weaknesses or whatever, He gives grace to bear it with grace. It's like I see the 'me' that has traveled the length of this world's highways and she's sort of wore out and weary in her mind and body. I have mercy on myself and quit blaming. That's all so pointless and exhausting anyway. I'd better be understanding towards her, He is!



      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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Debi
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Posted: Oct-24-10 at 4:55pm | IP Logged  


Sherri, sorry, I'm not really getting totally what you are saying here , call it senior brain fade.
 
When you say: "isn't that our automatic, built-in blessing...", not following what you are referring to by the word that? And you are relating this to our unrealistic expectations. When you have more time maybe you could help me out.

Good points Connie!

"that I MUST be in remembrance that I am in Him, and in Him is no sin. In this "place" everything is made to work to my good."

I can relate to what you said.

"I'd better be understanding towards her, He is!"

To quote a friend- "ALL of Life is of Him."
(Don't know how this fits in but just wanted to add it.)



      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-24-10 at 6:15pm | IP Logged  

oops ... sorry ...     

i was talking about what you and jim are describing ... about how god causes all things to work out for good ... that altho' we and others may tend from time to time to judge everything by coulda, shoulda, wouldas ... good and bad ... mistakes and successes  ... it may all viewed differently from god's perspective.  that is a HUGE blessing, privilege, providential supply, etc.  i hope that helps more.  and ... i am a little distracted today ... probably should not have typed anything at all until i am more clear about it myself. 

i loved what you both shared, deb (and what jim said that you quoted) and connie! 

i loved this especially, too:  "... the good news of Christ declares the removal of all that offends, so that there is nothing to miss in Christ!!"




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-25-10 at 10:32am | IP Logged  

okay ... some 'for instances' for whoever may relate:  i will speak for myself ...

early on, but not initially, i began to adopt the assumption that since i was a christian, then others were going to finally start loving me and start being all kinds of 'good' toward me 'cuz after all, i, the christian belonged to god now and he is love and everyone loves love and so ... all kinds of good things, good results, good this, good that, and good the-other was going to begin happening to me and for me in my life.

you know how we sometimes talk about how we used to be under the delusion that we could 'do' the laws of god and 'be good' people (after all, god can only help those who help themselves, right?) when really at the time our reality was that we were yet dead in our trespasses and sins ... we were lost and without hope in the world.  remember how we eventually became disillusioned about our delusions and realized there was absolutely no hope of accomplishing what we were once so sure we could accomplish concerning us and god and the things of god?

well, speaking for myself again:  

time past and then, god miraculously awakened me to new life.  it was a wonderful freeing awakening!  i felt so truly alive for the first time in my life, along with all the other emotions that came along with that 'aliveness' ~ security, assurance, support, freedom, love, affection, hope ... i could go on and on.  it wasn't too long before i concluded that now, surely i am somehow empowered to 'do' and to 'get' all things under control ... behaviors, thoughts, feelings, life, relationships, this, that and the other ... it could now all get 'fixed' and 'under control'.  it didn't take long before i began to think in my heart and mind that since i have god now, surely i also have his 'power' to do all these things right and finally, once and for all.  (sorry for the redundancy ... i guess you get the point?

i initially experienced a lot of really neat and cool things.  i can sometimes look back and remember some really neat things that happened in my life at the time.  they were real and genuine and indeed good.  i am not negating them. 

not too much time passed when along with all those feelings and experiences came along the well-meaning voices of reason (including inside my own head) with all the various flavors and versions of interpretations of what it means now to be christian, and all the various versions and flavors of responsibilities and expectations, etc.

as soon as i realized i did not have any particular super god-power given me by god that could get me and my life 'under control' the way i may have assumed, hoped or been led to believe, (mind you, i was still not even aware that i was thinking that way) all the doubt and disappointment began to take hold.  i began to try to figure out why things were not happening the way i assumed, or the way i was mistaken, or led to believe they would, could or should.  i began to 'realize' that the problem was all with me and that i needed to find out what god wanted me to do before he would empower me or allow me to ... dot dot dot ... fill in the blank.  i desperately wanted all those wonderful good feelings of life and good experiences to be sustained.

i was taught that if i wanted that to be my reality, then i must lose myself and devote myself to prayer, bible study, witnessing, doing good, confessing sin, avoiding this, that and the other, being 'faithful', ... dot dot dot ... fill in the blank.  thus the continual growth of perceived need for religious mind games (altho' i did not realize they were mind games at the time) and religious-legal-mental jungle gyms that would lead me up and down and over and around and through and every which away to more and more, heavier and heavier bondage, pressing and weighing ever harder and heavier down upon me until ... i ... just ... couldn't ... 'play' ... any-... more.   



yes, THAT was and is a good thing ... that i finally came to the conclusion that i can not 'play' anymore.  as i said, i didn't even realize i was 'playing'  ... not while in the midst of it hot and heavy, purposeful, determined ... sometimes even desperate.  i was most genuine, serious, etc.

i am not saying that any of that experience was a 'mistake', 'bad' thing, 'wrong' thing or anything of that sort.  really i am not.  it was very much a 'necessary' thing for me to experience.  one that taught, and continues to teach me, what is true about god by a sort of 'process of elimination'.  

fear, guilt and shame that manipulated me and led me around by the nose ... and i still yet fall-for-it from time to time ... was and is often used to teach me and remind me of what is flesh/what is spirit ... what is life/what is death ... what is light/what is darkness ... what is true/what is deception, etc. 

now, where was i going with all this?  i dunno.      i am currently distracted.  i have to step away from the computer now ... i may or may not get back to this ...    time will tell ...     




Edited by Dignz on Oct-25-10 at 12:06pm


      

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luvin
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Posted: Oct-25-10 at 12:37pm | IP Logged  

I am enjoying this very much.

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-25-10 at 1:18pm | IP Logged  

I love how you sum up all of it here:


"fear, guilt and shame that manipulated me and led me
around by the nose ... and i still yet fall-for-it
from time to time ... was and is often used to teach
me and remind me of what is flesh/what is spirit ...
what is life/what is death ... what is light/what is
darkness ... what is true/what is deception, etc. "-
Dignz

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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the shovel
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Posted: Oct-25-10 at 4:09pm | IP Logged  

Sherri, this is all so wonderful!  So full of life and encouragement!!    Thank you so much for taking the time to write this out. I know how much of your time it takes.

Love, Jim


      

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Debi
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Posted: Oct-25-10 at 10:00pm | IP Logged  

Sorry I was out of town all day and away from the computer but thanks Sherri for clarifying and the great examples. I sure can relate.

Yes, God's good isn't worldly/fleshly "good" and so many times we just won't "see" yet.


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-25-10 at 10:09pm | IP Logged  

      thanks for the encouragement.  i am kinda boggled really as to how i even got into that, or where or why it came out of me, much less where i may have been headed with it.    i actually may have had a moment that i knew, but ... then i got into it and got lost with the rewording of things, correcting things to make as much sense as i could and then ... somewhere ... whatever i was thinking and wherever i was headed just kinda got lost of course.       however, i am glad that you got anything out of it.    i was thinking that maybe there would be others who could relate with the experiences, even tho' 'details' may be different. 

thanx, babe for appreciating my time in the matter.      you know how laboriously slow i am at getting posts typed up 'just so' before i actually chance putting them out there.  sometimes, when i re-read what i post, i realize that maybe i am still not slow enough.      

anyway ... hugs around ...   


Edited by Dignz on Oct-25-10 at 10:11pm


      

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Dignz
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Posted: Oct-26-10 at 11:53am | IP Logged  

"... now, where was i going with all this?  i dunno."     

still don't, but ... i am kinda bothered just leaving it as is.  it is not really a 'complete' anything.  just some thoughts that regurgitated. 

right now i am thinking that the best and most encouraging thing brought about in my life was the revelation that what i thought was 'my life', and what i thought defined my life, was indeed not my life at all.  let me try it this way ... so much of what i was under the impression was still 'my life' or 'me' even as a 'christian', was not my life or me after all, but was instead what i had died to in christ.  i did not really understand the 'new creation' issue.  i suppose you could look at it as me striving to keep what was really dead alive, (which was and is of course, impossible)
and to use the dead thing for god.  ???   

but not to worry ... none of that changed what was really true concerning the new life i am in christ.  nothing stops the work of god, and nothing frustrates his will.  what we may view sometimes as 'wasted' or 'bad' or ... whatever we may term it, is perhaps the very stuff god works with in the conforming process.  what i may have been so convinced that i was using for god, was in reality what god was using to bring me to see what was really him.  (i don't know if i worded that very well, but i hope you get the idea?)  

anyway ... i'll stop for now ...




      

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luvin
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Posted: Oct-26-10 at 1:02pm | IP Logged  

"so much of what i was under the impression was
still
'my life' or 'me' even as a 'christian', was not my
life or me after all but was instead what i had died
to in Christ'-dignz


THAT is a Shack quote.


Love,

A

Edited by luvin on Oct-26-10 at 1:03pm


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-26-10 at 1:09pm | IP Logged  

yes looking forward to more of your thoughts...



you said:" but not to worry ... none of that changed
what was really true concerning the new life i am in
christ. nothing stops the work of god, and nothing
frustrates his will. what we may view sometimes as
'wasted' or 'bad' or ... whatever we may term it, is
perhaps the very stuff god works with in the
conforming process. what i may have been so
convinced that i was using for god, was in reality
what god was using to bring me to see what was
really him. (i don't know if i worded that very
well, but i hope you get the idea?)   

anyway ... i'll stop for now ...


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Oct-26-10 at 5:49pm | IP Logged  

Yeah.

      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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Debi
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Posted: Oct-26-10 at 5:53pm | IP Logged  

Sherri wrote:
nothing stops the work of god, and nothing frustrates his will.  what we may view sometimes as 'wasted' or 'bad' or ... whatever we may term it, is perhaps the very stuff god works with in the conforming process.  what i may have been so convinced that i was using for god, was in reality what god was using to bring me to see what was really him.


This is great!

Maybe it can be put together with what Adam said to be a Shack Quote-don't know if it's too long.


      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-29-10 at 9:04am | IP Logged  

gregoryfl wrote:
Yeah.



Hey there Ron, great that you popped in.


Adam

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
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Posted: Oct-29-10 at 9:33am | IP Logged  

i suppose you could look at it as me striving to keep what was really dead alive, (which was and is of course, impossible) and to use the dead thing for god. -Dignz


..and this is what we get caught up in so much of the time.


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Connie
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Posted: Oct-29-10 at 1:34pm | IP Logged  

i suppose you could look at it as me striving to keep what was really dead alive, (which was and is of course, impossible) and to use the dead thing for god. -Dignz

shack quote, shack quote!

 

 

this could indicate that the great majority of living in this world is simply to provide the dark back drop wherein the light can shine....after awhile we could start getting the understanding that it's a whole lot more fun and exciting to just look at the light. I think that's what we do here, don't you all?



Edited by Connie on Oct-29-10 at 1:42pm


      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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Debi
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Posted: Oct-29-10 at 3:17pm | IP Logged  

For sure!!

      

Debi
"Truth is not the sum total of all true things, but is instead a person & His name is Jesus & He has become our LIFE."
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the shovel
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Posted: Oct-30-10 at 5:29am | IP Logged  

Connie wrote:
this could indicate that the great majority of living in this world is simply to provide the dark back drop wherein the light can shine....after awhile we could start getting the understanding that it's a whole lot more fun and exciting to just look at the light. I think that's what we do here, don't you all?


Hello Connie, my dear :)

Yes, looking and enjoying the light is so much better than the dark back drop! Yes, and how many are not happy unless they get us examining every dark corner. Sheesh!

Jim 


      

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