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Biblical Interpretation
 Shovel Shack : Biblical Interpretation
Subject Topic: Prayer - silent or outloud
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csnarnia
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Posted: Mar-20-09 at 11:16pm | IP Logged  

For many years I've wondered if God listens to silent prayer...prayer that is not oral...I've been taught that prayer must be spoken or it's just an imagination....Others say God hears the silent prayer....God didn't just imagine the world into existence...yet he made something from nothing as he spoke.  Jesus said that our heavenly father knows what we need before we ask...Does it matter or is it just fleshly thinking to compare the two...silent prayer or prayer that is verbalized.

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luvin
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Posted: Mar-20-09 at 11:46pm | IP Logged  

Dear csnarnia,

Please be encouraged. If Christ lives in you then indeed He is[in] your prayers IN and through you. Should you be moved to pray do not let the flesh determine whether or not it must be disected.His Life in you prays...sometimes you sense this going on and verbalize it..and sometimes not. Same with me. All to many times I have silenced myself when listening to the flesh and it's antics. Be comfortable with who lives in you and lives THROUGH you.

 

love,

Luvin




      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Tim P
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Posted: Mar-20-09 at 11:59pm | IP Logged  

Excellent question csnarnia.
I thought of what John wrote when he said that if we ask anything according to God's will we know that He hears us, and if we know that He hears us then we know that we have what we have asked of Him.
There's a lot in that verse, but one thing that seems obvious to me is that there are things that we may pray by the spoken word that He does not hear, because they are not His will.  So, it must not be of the verbal word that guarantees His ear, but that which is of His will.  And who knows the will of God better than the Spirit of God who is from Him and in us?  Is it not He who constantly prays within us, and these prayers are sometimes expressed by our words.

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the shovel
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Posted: Mar-21-09 at 9:29am | IP Logged  

Quote:
Is it not He who constantly prays within us, and these prayers are sometimes expressed by our words.


Excellent! :)

Jim


      

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Dignz
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Posted: Mar-21-09 at 9:49am | IP Logged  

lovely indeed!  encouraging!  

      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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meek
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Posted: Mar-24-09 at 6:52am | IP Logged  

Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God's peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:6-7 NLT).

Having a conversation with God, silent or out loud, formal or informal is praying.  Praying for me is communicating with God, whether I am thanking, asking, or just venting.  There is a greater peace (like the passage above speaks of) I feel when I talk to God when compared to what I feel when I talk to myself or someone else.  I feel safe and relieved. 
Tracey


      

meek
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Tim P
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Posted: Mar-24-09 at 10:39am | IP Logged  

Tracey,

What you wrote makes good sense and it does seem to work that way, but for some weird reason I am tempted to feel regret that I have not talked with God as much as I think I should have and that as a result I am loosing out with Him and the things He would want to do.

I know this sounds like a don't have a grasp of His love and grace.  But I guess I share it with all for some help here.  How can I get over these thoughts and feelings that I have failed in prayer because I have not spoken with Him enough and just move on to knowing His pleasure when ever I do...or don't.

Is this an example of something I should pray about rather than yack about here?

Can anyone out there relate? 



Edited by Tim P on Mar-24-09 at 10:41am
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ShannonC
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Hey, Tim:

Funny you should say that...I was thinking something similar this morning.  It is a long story but I've been trying to get up earlier in the morning so that I could spend some quiet time and write in my journal more. There are some specific things I've been talking to God about lately and just really wanted to stay focused on these things.  Well, for the past two mornings I have been exhausted and just did not want to get up/could not get up early. Also, I don't do well with even thinking before my first cup of coffee.  So, I'm sitting there this morning thinking by the time I have my first cup of coffee, it is going to be time to get ready for work and I am not going to have any time to "formally" talk to God about what I was wanting to talk to him about.  And then He told me, "We are in a relationship, I in You and You in Me.  I'm not going anywhere...we have plenty of time to talk." He didn't say this outloud to me but I sensed it in my spirit - I knew his voice.  I thought this is REALLY a relationship, REALLY  a marriage and I need not worry about getting things done RIGHT NOW.  He's not going anywhere...we have eternity.

Hope that helps somehow...



      

ShannonC
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Tim P
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Posted: Mar-24-09 at 2:15pm | IP Logged  

Thanks, Shan.  That is helpful. 

I know that there's got to be some way out of this quagmire and thus discover true love relationship with God.  I am surrounded by people who do prayer much better than I ever have and I have felt do deficient in this area for most of my life as a Christian, it seems.  There must be something I just don't understand about God and prayer, etc.

Ah, "He's not going anywhere."  Now, that is encouraging.
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the shovel
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Posted: Mar-24-09 at 3:36pm | IP Logged  

Timmy, my friend,

Who knows how to pray better than the Spirit of God within you?

      

DIGGIN'THE LIFE!
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ShannonC
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Posted: Mar-24-09 at 4:01pm | IP Logged  

yes, Jim!

I kept thinking of the verse that says the Spirit groans within us with "words that cannot be uttered." Didn't I say that correctly?



      

ShannonC
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rickh
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Posted: Mar-24-09 at 6:57pm | IP Logged  

There have been many a time when I've prayed (what I thought was "good Prayer") and gotten absolutely nothing, no "results", then there were many times (mostly, ironically), when God and Christ were the furthest things from my mind and He revealed Himself in a most miraculous way that no "correct" prayer has ever done.  Hence, I don't "officially" pray anymore.  I do try to listen tho, albeit with seemingly deaf ears most of the time. 

I just keep finding comfort in that He knows our prayers, past, present, and future without us ever muttering a word.  Prayers that we seemingly don't even know.  I would think He has that ability.

In fact I'm sure He has answered prayers I did not want and did not answer ones I thought I wanted.  Father knows best. 


Edited by rickh on Mar-24-09 at 7:05pm


      

rick
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luvin
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yes and oddly enough I see both written about in the New Testamat.[the Spirit searching, and  also praying from our own/His desire] I guess that could only mean one thing. Sometimes God indeed does impress us to pray and at other times He simply prays for us. I like the freedom in that.I mean if He does live in us. Does that seem odd to us that He would be the instigator of this thing we call prayer? And also the One who takes up the slack when we simply are not "led" to pray or even know how to pray for others and things and even our own selves? Those that are good at praying so to speak, may just have a habit that they learned that involves pubilc speaking.

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Dave S
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Tim P wrote:
Thanks, Shan.  That is helpful. 

I know that there's got to be some way out of this quagmire and thus discover true love relationship with God.  I am surrounded by people who do prayer much better than I ever have and I have felt do deficient in this area for most of my life as a Christian, it seems.  There must be something I just don't understand about God and prayer, etc.

Ah, "He's not going anywhere."  Now, that is encouraging.

"Whilst"  "deficiencies" are believed, deficiencies will abound. How much more then will the sufficiency of grace super-abound, when the sufficiency of grace is believed.

XXXXXXX 

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luvin
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amen dave!

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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meek
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Good morning Tim!
I think each relationship grows differently, including our relationship with God.  Communication is one key component to any intimate relationship and for each one of us, communicating may take the form of words, letters, silence, thoughts, or actions.  God craves intimacy with each of us as we do with Him.  Prayer is one way to communicate with Him.  Prayer is a word placed on that communication.  I use to think prayer was saying the "Our Father" or "Hail Mary" but I was just repeating some words and not actually talking to God.  Now I have a better relationship with God and I talk to Him daily in a variety of ways.  Some times I just say "Hi" and nothing more.  I have grown closer to God and it has been an incredible relationship.  He has nurtured me through some hard times and I feel our bound strengthen because of that. 

Like Shannon said, He is not going anywhere.  He is consistent and content with any time you spend with Him.  While we all converse on the Shack, God is here.  We leave our computers and reflect on what we shared and may or may not have a private talk with God.  God understands how you pray and if you crave more, He is there.


Tracey


      

meek
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Dignz
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i was just thinking this morning about how god has created us as an entire complete life having everything we need that has to do with god and godliness.  nothing missing whatsoever.  nothing needed to go back to the 'god store' for to purchase to finish the incomplete life-form so-to-speak, or to maintain it, sustain it or any other 'tain.   

when we have these feelings and thoughts of 'lacking' pertaining to anything of him and us, then we are caught in the trap again of thinking we are OUTside of god needing to do SOMEthing to make us feel convinced that he and we are okay or will be okay, or can be okay or will stay okay as long as we ... fill in the blank. 

how more complete a life and how more special a relationship can we be if HIS OWN SPIRIT prays for us AT ALL TIMES.  and how irresistible the times we are compelled ... and i mean no resistance whatsoever to have conversations, share thoughts and feelings with him, etc. 

as we see the removal of more and more of the conditioned religious versions of 'relationship' with god, and really, even the removal of more and more conditioned human expectations of what 'relationship' with god is supposed to be, the more we see the reality of the relationship that is there.

when the issue of 'prayer', and/or any other issues come up and have the effect of robbing us of our confidence in him by suggesting there is more we need to do to 'make this thing work' ... especially when we compare ourselves to others and vice versa,  then i think that should be the big bright neon red flag for us.  a red flag of warning telling us to beware of the message that tells us that we do not have what it takes to be anything to god, for god, of god or anything else pertaining to god.  basically ... the message that pursues us and incessantly taunts at us that we are lacking in some way, shape or form!  it is a lie and we know where it comes from.  don't let your hearts be troubled by it.  it is not your message and you are  not obligated in any way to entertain it for even a millisecond!  you don't own it.  it isn't yours.  and thank god for that! 

we are the new creation ... we are alive to god in christ jesus his son!  how much closer can one get to god?  for people to try to incessantly convince us of how 'close' they are to god, especially when they do such and such and ... fill in the blank ... leaving us feeling like we are somehow lacking, is often times them just trying to convince themselves more by convincing us, and if they can convince us then they feel more validated as if that makes it more of the reality they themselves are trying to create, etc.  it is all just insecurity speaking through silly human pride, deception and whatever else.

if you think about it from a mere human perspective, it is like siblings trying to convince one another that their daddy loves them more than the other, and that they have a closer, better relationship, and if their sibling or siblings would just be more like them then he would love them more, too and ... blah blah blah ....

so if we equate the 'doing' of prayer with love and relationship ... i am not saying that they don't go hand in hand ... but there is something amiss when we start comparing the 'doing of it' with and amongst one another ... who does it better, who does it more, who does it right, who does it more eloquently, who does it more genuinely, who does it ... fill in the blank.  and then there is the whole other judgements and comparings as to who's prayers are actually answered more, answered better, answered more quickly, answered more completely,  etc.    

well ... i guess this drove me to a ... i dunno ... tangent?  is that the appropriate word?   i just hate it when my siblings are led to believe what is NOT true about them.  it always gets my dander up.    not at my siblings, but at the liar!!  grrrrrowwwwl!!

and hey dave s!  good to see you again.  hope your time away was refreshing and enjoyable.  missed you.




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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How can I get over these thoughts and feelings that I have failed in prayer because I have not spoken with Him enough and just move on to knowing His pleasure when ever I do...or don't. <--tim

he has made you his pleasure. you are in his son and you are his son in whom he is also well pleased!  why?  well, because you prayed just the right amount of times and in the right way and in the right place in front of the right people, using the right words, and the right expressions and the right ... fill in the blank, of course.  

to quote alf, another kind of alien:  'i kill me'  


love ya tim 


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Tim P
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Dignz wrote:

he has made you his pleasure. you are in his son and you are his son in whom he is also well pleased!  why?  well, because you prayed just the right amount of times and in the right way and in the right place in front of the right people, using the right words, and the right expressions and the right ... fill in the blank, of course.  

to quote alf, another kind of alien:  'i kill me'  


love ya tim 

Thanks, Sher.  Man, just what you said has been a real struggle to graps for as long as I can remember.  Oh, I can say the words and tell others the same, but to really grasp it in my bowels, my visceral, has been a struggle.  BUT, you are absolutley right and there really can be no other way but being fully loved and accepted in the Son.

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Dignz
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he is all we have to encourage one another with ... christ himself in us, god's miraculous ones.  too bad/so sad it is just too insufficient for us sometimes.   sighhhh ...   

we can all struggle with and in times of insecurity and lack of clarity.  no one is immune.  so we do one another 'good' when we can remind one another and build one another up as having everything provided for us IN christ who is our all and ever-sufficient one.  the life of god is HUGE beyond HUGE beyond our imaginations, and we are ever growing/expanding in that life.  we could enjoy it so much better if we weren't always being convinced that we have to put ourselves in boxes like we try to cram god in.  (as if we really could   if we could just get rid of those blasted boxes!  or at least use them for what they are really good for ... tossing all the crap we discover as being crap into them and then burn 'em!      but really, that stuff is all bogus anyway ... the boxes and the things that we could try to cram in them.  because christ himself is the end of all of it.  he always has been, always will be, always was.  the end of it all ... in him there is only freedom and love and everything we think we are missing, because we have been taught well to listen to the lies from the liar. 

so for those who have ears, we speak to one another. 




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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meek
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Posted: Mar-25-09 at 1:41pm | IP Logged  

so for those who have ears, we speak to one another. 

Beautiful Sherri, your heart speaks loud and clear.

Tracey


      

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luvin
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Posted: Mar-25-09 at 8:14pm | IP Logged  

Dignz wrote:
i was just thinking this morning about how god has created us as an entire complete life having everything we need that has to do with god and godliness.  nothing missing whatsoever.  nothing needed to go back to the 'god store' for to purchase to finish the incomplete life-form so-to-speak, or to maintain it, sustain it or any other 'tain.   

when we have these feelings and thoughts of 'lacking' pertaining to anything of him and us, then we are caught in the trap again of thinking we are OUTside of god needing to do SOMEthing to make us feel convinced that he and we are okay or will be okay, or can be okay or will stay okay as long as we ... fill in the blank. 

how more complete a life and how more special a relationship can we be if HIS OWN SPIRIT prays for us AT ALL TIMES.  and how irresistible the times we are compelled ... and i mean no resistance whatsoever to have conversations, share thoughts and feelings with him, etc. 

as we see the removal of more and more of the conditioned religious versions of 'relationship' with god, and really, even the removal of more and more conditioned human expectations of what 'relationship' with god is supposed to be, the more we see the reality of the relationship that is there.

when the issue of 'prayer', and/or any other issues come up and have the effect of robbing us of our confidence in him by suggesting there is more we need to do to 'make this thing work' ... especially when we compare ourselves to others and vice versa,  then i think that should be the big bright neon red flag for us.  a red flag of warning telling us to beware of the message that tells us that we do not have what it takes to be anything to god, for god, of god or anything else pertaining to god.  basically ... the message that pursues us and incessantly taunts at us that we are lacking in some way, shape or form!  it is a lie and we know where it comes from.  don't let your hearts be troubled by it.  it is not your message and you are  not obligated in any way to entertain it for even a millisecond!  you don't own it.  it isn't yours.  and thank god for that! 

we are the new creation ... we are alive to god in christ jesus his son!  how much closer can one get to god?  for people to try to incessantly convince us of how 'close' they are to god, especially when they do such and such and ... fill in the blank ... leaving us feeling like we are somehow lacking, is often times them just trying to convince themselves more by convincing us, and if they can convince us then they feel more validated as if that makes it more of the reality they themselves are trying to create, etc.  it is all just insecurity speaking through silly human pride, deception and whatever else.

if you think about it from a mere human perspective, it is like siblings trying to convince one another that their daddy loves them more than the other, and that they have a closer, better relationship, and if their sibling or siblings would just be more like them then he would love them more, too and ... blah blah blah ....

so if we equate the 'doing' of prayer with love and relationship ... i am not saying that they don't go hand in hand ... but there is something amiss when we start comparing the 'doing of it' with and amongst one another ... who does it better, who does it more, who does it right, who does it more eloquently, who does it more genuinely, who does it ... fill in the blank.  and then there is the whole other judgements and comparings as to who's prayers are actually answered more, answered better, answered more quickly, answered more completely,  etc.    

well ... i guess this drove me to a ... i dunno ... tangent?  is that the appropriate word?   i just hate it when my siblings are led to believe what is NOT true about them.  it always gets my dander up.    not at my siblings, but at the liar!!  grrrrrowwwwl!!

and hey dave s!  good to see you again.  hope your time away was refreshing and enjoyable.  missed you.


Sher,

I cut and pasted this real quick so that I could read it on my blackberry on my way into work.[about an hour drive]. I have to tell you..this was maybe the most powerful post I have ever read since spending my time here on the Shack! I almost picked up the phone and called you!! Wow! This is so full of Life and Truth.

I really have realized just how pointed this attack on our confidence really is and that the enemy would really desire for us to remain shipwrecked at any given time.



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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luvin
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in him there is only freedom and love and everything we think we are missing, because we have been taught well to listen to the lies from the liar.  -Dignz

 

 

Shack Quote

 




      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Dignz
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Posted: Mar-26-09 at 11:52am | IP Logged  

adam ... so happy anytime anything is truly uplifting and supportive of that miraculous life within!      




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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in him there is only freedom and love and everything we think we are missing, because we have been taught well to listen to the lies from the liar.  -Dignz


i don't know if i am really happy with that quote as it is ... a little matter maybe, but maybe get rid of the comma?  i think the comma insinuates that all those things are in christ because we have been taught well to listen to the lies from the liar?  that is not what i meant, but i am glad that despite my lousy grammar or sentence structure or whatever you want to call it, you got what i meant.  i think that is miraculous in itself. 

i will leave it up to the shovel dude to 'make it right if it is wrong' concerning the comma issue.  commas are tricksy.    i just want it to say what i meant is all. 




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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luvin
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Posted: Mar-26-09 at 12:39pm | IP Logged  

Yes I totally got what ya meant.

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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ShannonC
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Posted: Mar-26-09 at 12:40pm | IP Logged  

My living is basically based on good grammar and yet I have never grapsed COMMAS.  I either throw them everywhere or leave them out completely.  Those damn commas!!!

Commas or not, I love this quote!



      

ShannonC
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Dignz
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Posted: Mar-26-09 at 1:16pm | IP Logged  

  commas ... funny little dudes.  i don't know if even the comma experts agree all across the board.  

anyway ... thanx for understanding.  love you guyz. 




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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