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Biblical Interpretation
 Shovel Shack : Biblical Interpretation
Subject Topic: I have over come the world
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Joyce
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 8:33am | IP Logged  

Just wondering if anyone has any insights as to what this might mean in a more specific way.  It is in the context of "In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.  In my particular "trial" right now, someone was encouraging me with this verse, which I appreciate; but where I am in the trial doesn't seem to jive with the overcoming of the world, but just the opposite at least at this point.  My only thought is that in the end of it, it will be seen for what it truly is.   Any additional thoughts.?  Thanks.

Joyce

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Broken Link
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 12:08pm | IP Logged  

Joyce,

I went and found the scripture and read through a little ahead of the scripture you had a question about. It seems that the disciples were having a little problem understanding what Jesus was here to do.
Quote:
Jesus knew that they had some questions, so he said, "You are wondering what I meant when I said that for a little while you won't see me, but after a while you will see me. I tell you for certain that you will cry and be sad, but the world will be happy. You will be sad, but later you will be happy. When a woman is about to give birth, she is in great pain. But after it is all over, she forgets the pain and is happy, because she has brought a child into the world. You are now very sad. But later I will see you, and you will be so happy that no one will be able to change the way you feel. When that time comes, you won't have to ask me about anything. I tell you for certain that the Father will give you whatever you ask for in my name. You have not asked for anything in this way before, but now you must ask in my name. Then it will be given to you, so that you will be completely happy."
John 16:19-24, CEV

Well, here's my initial take on it based on the conversation.
Quote:
As long as you are thinking with this world's way of thinking, you will have trouble coming to the place you want to be both in understanding and standing with God, but don't be afraid, I have overcome the world's way of thinking.

Just an idea.

Edited by Broken Link on Jul-09-05 at 2:40pm


      

Bill
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Joyce
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 2:12pm | IP Logged  

 

Thanks Bill.  It is true that the things we go through have a lot to do with the way we think about it.  Guess I want to see tangible results so that i can "be of good cheer".  I guess it is a matter of faith.  If we go by how we feel here about being "Christ in us" then it would seem that the overcoming of the thinking of the world is already in us.  I always struggle when there's financial loss.... and the thinking of the world with regard to it, but if it is true that I have a NEW mind then it must not be true, but only "seems" so.  (?)    it woud seem like I am in a "process", but from what I am learning here, it is more of coming into the realization of what really is.  Any understandings and encouragements in this area would be appreciated.

Joyce

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Broken Link
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 2:54pm | IP Logged  

Joyce,

Re-reading even more of the passage, I think that it probably goes even deeper than just to the realm of thought and ways of thinking.

What I find interesting, almost like I'd never read in this passage before, is this passage of scripture:
Quote:
The Spirit will come and show the people of this world the truth about sin and God's justice and the judgment. The Spirit will show them that they are wrong about sin, because they didn't have faith in me. They are wrong about God's justice, because I am going to the Father, and you won't see me again. And they are wrong about the judgment, because God has already judged the ruler of this world.

Amazing. The world has it all wrong, and while we're here, it will be hard to continually be subjected to the world's understanding that totally misses the point.

I'm starting to see the continuity of this thought from even earlier in the discussion. And I think that the fear would be that if they died that the world would win, "But be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world."

More than a process of getting from one mindset to another, the reality of Jesus eclipses any "reality" that this world presents. It isn't dependent upon where we are in our growth or how stuck in the fleshly world mindset we may be. Jesus has overcome that for us.

Edited by Broken Link on Jul-09-05 at 2:56pm


      

Bill
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Joyce
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 3:08pm | IP Logged  

 

Bill,

I'm going to read this some more later since I have to leave, (and thanks for this), but am almost getting the initial impression that we could almost title you last response...  "Not to worry".

Joyce 

 

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PeteNZ
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 5:02pm | IP Logged  

(LITV)  I have spoken these things to you that you may have peace in Me. You have distress in the world; but be encouraged, I have overcome the world.

This suggests to me that, instead of being beaten up by what the world throws at us, we R.I.P. 


      

Pete
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Dave S
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 7:23pm | IP Logged  

As long as you are thinking with this world's way of thinking, you will have trouble coming to the place you want to be both in understanding and standing with God, but don't be afraid, I have overcome the world's way of thinking.

Good thoughts Bill

Joyce

Having endured a little financial loss myself of late along with all the thoughts that rise up concerning it, perhaps I made a discovery on this wise.

Financial loss would equate to bad, BUT, on the other hand, surely financial gain would equate to good. Therefore I would be of the mind set of good and bad once again and suffer the consequences of that mindset.

Father, has shown that our riches are in Christ and that we can count all other things as but dung.

Yesterday, for some unknown reason, a flower and a flower press came to mind, picture the flower in the press, with the screw being tightened and tightened, it seemed that the world presses in on us, as if it were the reality and Christ the unreality.

What if that little flower were to rise up in that press and burst out through the wooden lid, smashing the screw in the process.

In reality this is just what Christ has done with legs as pillars of marble, smashing through the mindset of good, bad, gain, loss, which appear to be the reality but are not.

If we are to be content in all things, why not in loss as well as in gain.

Do I wonder if my loss will be returned, perhaps, perhaps not, who knows. Perhaps in letting the loss "go" it may return, who knows 

I just find it a far better better thing to focus on "once I was lost but am now found, with the emphasis on the "found"   

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Broken Link
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 7:55pm | IP Logged  

Dave,

I like that picture of the flower and the press. Now, why someone would be pressing a flower, I have no idea, but the idea that a flower could break through a press like that. That's an awesome mental image.

      

Bill
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Joyce
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Posted: Jul-09-05 at 11:21pm | IP Logged  

 

Ohhhhh,  Dave S  Thank you so much for that.  How I could have said all those things about good and bad and loss and gain to other circumstances, (especially as they might have applied to others.)    But somehow didn't think of it in my situation now, especially the "good and bad".  I also remember just recently when talking with a young lady about her relationship with someone and holding my hand out flat and open to demonstrate the need to not hold on, but to be willing for it to go.  No, it is impossible for a flower to break out of a press like that.  Of course, in the realm in which we dwell, the impossible can happen at any time.  Hmm, I'm starting to get an inkling of feeling like I can even look forward to this process in expectation of how it will be.

I want to remember what is real.

Joyce

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