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The Stuff of Grace
 Shovel Shack : The Stuff of Grace
Subject Topic: Take up your cross
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Apr-20-08 at 6:04pm | IP Logged  

I have been thinking a lot lately about what Jesus meant when he said that unless we deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow him, we are not worthy of being his disciples. Here is what I am currently considering.

So much of what I have been seeing in the Gospels that I used to think were New Covenant principles I am now seeing totally the opposite. Rather than Jesus telling us things that we can obtain, I think he was telling us how impossible it was to obtain anything of God by means of what we do.

That is how I see this idea of taking up one's cross and denying oneself. Rather than telling them this so that they can actually do this and thus say they are worthy of being one of his disciples, he was actually showing how impossible is was to do that. The harder I try, the more frustrating it gets. I think Tim expressed it so very well. So what I now see is that Christ took up his cross and denied himself to the point of death, and in that death, killed me with him. He accomplished what we could not. I do not need to take up my cross and follow him, he already did that with me 2,000 years ago.

I also am seeing this same idea of impossibility in what is known as the Sermon on the Mount; that he was showing them how impossible it was to do God's will to be made right with God. The religious leaders thought they had a good grasp on the law and were doing well in keeping it, and Jesus comes and makes it infinitely harder to keep. In effect saying, you want to be righteous? Here is what my Father's law really entails. So if you want to be right with God, your righteousness has to exceed that of the religious leaders. NOT HAPPENING!

Jesus showed us the impossible in what he said to bring man to utter dependence on Christ, not one iota on himself; bringing us to the end of ourselves that Christ may be all in all.
Ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Apr-20-08 at 6:19pm


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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the shovel
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Posted: Apr-20-08 at 8:39pm | IP Logged  

Yeah, just consider how the disciples reacted (through the mouth of Peter) when Jesus spoke of his impending death on the cross.

Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You."
(Matthew 16:22 NASB)

It was offensive to even seriously mention it. It was more than just death, it was ultimate humiliation and condemnation. "Cursed is he who hangs on a tree". However, the disciples came to count it joy when they were made conformable to his death. Paul wrote, "to know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings; being conformed to his death."

This may seem a little unrelated, but humor me in my delusion that it fits like a glove.

As Jesus was about to go up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside by themselves, and on the way He said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up." Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. And He said to her, "What do you wish?" She said to Him, "Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left." But Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?" They said to Him, "We are able." He said to them, "My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father." And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers. But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:17-28 NASB)

It was brought up earlier on the Shack about James and John and this cup Jesus asked them about. The question about the cup is an obvious referral to whether they would follow Jesus to his death, but I think it is incorrectly assumed that Jesus accepted their quick affirmation. Were they able? Not a chance. They ran, they abandoned him, they shrunk back in shame. And Jesus knew that. He told them ahead of time ... but then told them not to be troubled, merely to believe in him. Oh yes, they were going to drink the cup, but they would have to be brought into it, for God would conform them to the death of his son. Joined together in death, and raised together in his life! Not only that, but in their experience they would come to understand how separated they were from the world they once thought of as their home. As Paul wrote, "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." (Galatians 6:14 NASB)

I know it's popular to use the verse about taking up one's cross, but Jesus' demand ended up being fulfilled by taking his disciples down into his death, not by them being able to follow through on some kind of Christian principle of living. Remember how he told them while washing their feet that they did not understand what he was doing, but that they would? It's the same regarding the taking up of the cross. It's in the afterward of their testimony that we see what they came to understand. If we're looking at his words as being some kind of principle we need to follow then we're going to miss the reality of what he did for us and to us, as well as him bringing us into the realization of having been crucified to the world and the world having been crucified to us. And yeah, that realization can bring much pain and suffering because we come to see it in the context of being rejected and hated by the mind of that which we thought was our family.

Jim :)


      

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mary
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    Love it Jim!  


      

Mary
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luvin
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 7:25am | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:
Yeah, just consider how the disciples reacted (through the mouth of Peter) when Jesus spoke of his impending death on the cross.

Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You."
(Matthew 16:22 NASB)

It was offensive to even seriously mention it. It was more than just death, it was ultimate humiliation and condemnation. "Cursed is he who hangs on a tree". However, the disciples came to count it joy when they were made conformable to his death. Paul wrote, "to know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings; being conformed to his death."

This may seem a little unrelated, but humor me in my delusion that it fits like a glove.

As Jesus was about to go up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside by themselves, and on the way He said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up." Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him. And He said to her, "What do you wish?" She said to Him, "Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left." But Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?" They said to Him, "We are able." He said to them, "My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father." And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers. But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:17-28 NASB)

It was brought up earlier on the Shack about James and John and this cup Jesus asked them about. The question about the cup is an obvious referral to whether they would follow Jesus to his death, but I think it is incorrectly assumed that Jesus accepted their quick affirmation. Were they able? Not a chance. They ran, they abandoned him, they shrunk back in shame. And Jesus knew that. He told them ahead of time ... but then told them not to be troubled, merely to believe in him. Oh yes, they were going to drink the cup, but they would have to be brought into it, for God would conform them to the death of his son. Joined together in death, and raised together in his life! Not only that, but in their experience they would come to understand how separated they were from the world they once thought of as their home. As Paul wrote, "But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." (Galatians 6:14 NASB)

I know it's popular to use the verse about taking up one's cross, but Jesus' demand ended up being fulfilled by taking his disciples down into his death, not by them being able to follow through on some kind of Christian principle of living. Remember how he told them while washing their feet that they did not understand what he was doing, but that they would? It's the same regarding the taking up of the cross. It's in the afterward of their testimony that we see what they came to understand. If we're looking at his words as being some kind of principle we need to follow then we're going to miss the reality of what he did for us and to us, as well as him bringing us into the realization of having been crucified to the world and the world having been crucified to us. And yeah, that realization can bring much pain and suffering because we come to see it in the context of being rejected and hated by the mind of that which we thought was our family.

Jim :)

You know Jim I have often been led to recognize this but could never confidently speak it[due to lack of biblical contextual understanding]. So number one, thank you for speaking it/writting it, and number two, let me just say that this is seemingly A  huge stumbling block for those who would walk after the Spirit.[us who are saved]Those that would act and walk after the things of the mind of flesh seem to promote the living shit out of  Jesus' statment "take up your cross" and turn it into some sort of dead end road of "self denial".[of the flesh and through the flesh] I am happy to see the connection of the boasting in the cross of Christ and connecting it's TRUE meaning for us who are in the Son. Thank you brother.



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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rickh
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rick
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Connie
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 8:49am | IP Logged  

Dang Jim,

what you shared here put a 180 on "taking up the cross"theme. The understanding of self denial is not one of giving up ascetic pleasures or some such frivolities, like the religious mindset would tell us.  It completely has to do with the power of his resurrection within the believer that sets up shop and has its way.  That one in Christ ends up denying any shred of self effort to serve, and rests in His power to achieve.  And the achieving isn't even necessarily understandable, but it is witnessable!  You sense it within and you sense it in others. 

 



Edited by Connie on Apr-21-08 at 8:52am


      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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Dave S
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 9:02am | IP Logged  

Connie wrote:

Dang Jim,

what you shared here put a 180 on "taking up the cross"theme. The understanding of self denial is not one of giving up ascetic pleasures or some such frivolities, like the religious mindset would tell us.  It completely has to do with the power of his resurrection within the believer that sets up shop and has its way.  That one in Christ ends up denying any shred of self effort to serve, and rests in His power to achieve.  And the achieving isn't even necessarily understandable, but it is witnessable!  You sense it within and you sense it in others. 

 

Amen Connie, Amen

As He stated " My burden is light" . Taking up the cross is the key to our joy.

Later on I,ll tell ya a stooooory

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Connie
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Looking forward to your story, Dave!

      

Connie
"Wow!It's so bright in here!"
II Cor.4:5-6

    
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gregoryfl
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Thank Jim for clarifying what I was trying to say. I know this was a subject that I have seen brought up recently which got me to thinking about the whole thing and then when I finally was able to see what I shared I felt it was time to bring it up so hopefully those who it is for would be able to benefit from it.

Ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Apr-21-08 at 2:45pm


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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the shovel
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 4:11pm | IP Logged  

Ron, I think you said what you said well. :)

Jim


      

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 4:45pm | IP Logged  

Well, I have to confess. I don't have to but want to so I can get it out. I have fought all day whether to bring it out or not. So here goes...

When I posted, then read your response Jim, I felt relief because I saw that I was not the only one who was seeing what I was. Whenever I come across something new in my mind I am timid to share because I don't always like conflict. Ok, I don't like being wrong. There, I said it.

Anyway, then when I read all the other responses that speak of what you brought out, and nothing about what I brought out, I started to wonder if maybe if there was something I wrote that was inaccurate so I reread both posts and again, just saw the same basic understanding being expressed. I am so embarrassed to say this, but who cares, I started getting upset. How immature, I know. But I did. I am having the same thing happen to me in the Wednesday home group I am in. I will say something and it's like I didn't say anything. When the pastor speaks though, bam...all eyes are on him.

Stay with me, this is not a pity party. This is freedom at work here I think. I hope. All I could think of is why do I even bother sharing anything that is new to me? And especially if I share something someone disagrees with, I want to know why so I can learn. So here I am at work sulking in my truck, analyzing this. I know Connie, I hear you speaking to me again about analyzing myself. All that kept coming to my mind though was "remember Joseph." Again and again. To make a long story short, I remembered that he too felt misunderstood, when he did what was right he got the opposite treatment you would expect him to get, and then when he goes out of his way to help another person in jail, the guy off and forgets about him. And yet, in all that, he could see God in it all, bringing him to where he would eventually end up.

As I thought on this I started thinking less of me and more of you guys. I found myself thanking Jim for adding more to what I was saying. I am still not sure if what I was sharing was true or not, but it didn't matter. It doesn't matter. All that began to matter was that the responses were all from people who got out of Jim's post what they needed. For that I should have been happy, and I shamefully was not.

Then to top things off, after God helped me to understand what I think he is working in me, something he has been doing for quite some time, I get home and read of Sherri's post that she didn't want anyone to comment on. That really pissed me off. Thank you Sherri, I truly needed that. I mean it. No joke. I just hope that I can get to the place where God wants me very soon. I truly hate when I start to feel like that. It's like a trainwreck in my mind. I am not saying all this to get anyone to come pity me or even respond. I don't know why I am not just keeping this to myself, because it makes me feel like a complete idiot. But I just feel like posting this, getting this out in the open, will help me heal. I do sincerely thank you Jim and Sherri for having this God-send of a site up for Jesus. So much for my string of short posts.

Ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Apr-21-08 at 4:47pm


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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ShannonC
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 4:55pm | IP Logged  

gregoryfl wrote:
 
 
I don't know why I am not just keeping this to myself, because it makes me feel like a complete idiot. But I just feel like posting this, getting this out in the open, will help me heal. I do sincerely thank you Jim and Sherri for having this God-send of a site up for Jesus. So much for my string of short posts.

Ron

Ron:

I have OFTEN felt like an idiot on this forum and in life, in general.  I have not had time to read all of your posts, just because most of my reading is done at work - while I take breaks from work. Anyway, I can't comment on all your posts since I have not read all of them. I will say this you saying you feel like an idiot, being real, being vunerable - it made my heart leap.  I'm trying to say, that last post, for me, was full of life.  It is not that we have to feel like an idiot for HIS life to flow through us but I think it is one of those things where HIS life shows up in the places we sometimes least expect it, in ways we least expect. 

Think baby in a manger. !! More  - I had to go back and edit my post - I first wrote "baby in a manager"!!! I crack myself up!!



Edited by ShannonC on Apr-21-08 at 4:58pm


      

ShannonC
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luvin
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Ron,

Your such a neat and transparent guy. Kepp in mind I have been here at this forum about 8 years and I have had many, many posts in that time. Some things I thought would really help others and some I had no intention or clue would help anyone...guess what ended up happening in BOTH cases?

Stay with us here bro, there's lots to ask, question, challenge and say.



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 5:19pm | IP Logged  

No, no, no. I am NOT going anywhere. This is where I need to be. Dlinn needs his naps for cryin' out loud!  Like I said, this was not me sharing something to feel sorry for myself, this for me is another revelation of the victory of Christ in my life. I believe that Jim and I complimented each other in what we wrote, and in seeing everyone thank Jim and not me at all, as though God planned it that way, I know I am probably making too much of that point, but...it is painful as hell to me, but it is bringing me into ever increasing freedom. It truly is.

By the way, did you just call me an idiot Shannon?? I know you didn't, but you can tell when the cornrows of jokes come from my posts I'm in a good mood. I am not ashamed to be an idiot for Christ!...until it happens again.  Yes Adam, I have read many of your posts in the past, seeing from where you came from, and what a difference between back then with all the questions and stuff and now. It's so awesome brother, seeing your boldness and forthrightness. And thanks Shannon, we all need those reminders of those least expected places of his outworking in our lives. Lol, could you imagine the sequel? Baby in a manager, no room at the office. Thanks for that laugh hun!

Ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Apr-21-08 at 5:21pm


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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ShannonC
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 5:21pm | IP Logged  

Ron:

You had me worried there for a minute.  I was certain that I took the word "idiot" from your original post.  So I had to read it again to find the word.  AHHHH, are you just trying to get me to read your posts?

Just kidding, brother.

No room at the office! LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!



Edited by ShannonC on Apr-21-08 at 5:23pm


      

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Dignz
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ron, ya know what?    just because someone does not direct a post reply directly TO you, does NOT mean they did not get anything out of it, or that they did not like it, or that they did not agree, or that they did not get all excited even!    i kid you not.    i can not tell you all the posts i read and never even reply-post to them, but really got a lot out of them and even say to my hubby things like:  'wasn't that a great post!?'  and we will both just really be appreciating it.

so ... i hope you will reach a more comfy place within yourself to just post your heart because you need to post your heart and know that it surely might mean something to SOME body who just hasn't said anything.     i often wonder how many people are out there that have been lurking for a long time yet never post anything, but ...  they are really encouraged anyway. 

i apologize too for the misunderstanding of the post that says you can't post anything.  i wasn't meaning no one could post.  i was quoting that from jim's post about what he wants for the shack.    i think that subject title needs to be changed.  i wasn't very clear about that, even tho' i tried to specify a little in the opening.  communication IS a tricksie thing, yes? 

i love your posts ron.  they are full of encouragement and LIFE!  so are so many others'.  i don't always post a reply to everything i get something out of.    some thoughts are posted just because i am remembering the last post read or the last comment or line or something else has just taken my focus elsewhere.  rabbit trails ... i always get pulled off on those.  i LOVE bunnies! 

ron and everyone ... i hope always for His life's encouragement for your hearts! 


Edited by Dignz on Apr-21-08 at 6:07pm


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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dlinn94
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gregoryfl wrote:

No, no, no. I am NOT going anywhere. This is where I need to be.
Dlinn needs his naps for cryin' out loud! 


Does someone want to take a nap? Ditto to what Adam said about
you being transparent--I would say neat, but that doesn't feel
right for me

Thanks for expressing your feelings because most of us have the
very same thoughts-- often. But most of us, especially guys,
hesitate to express them--heaven forbid that we would expose
ourselves. Thanks for leading the way! I see strength in your
"weakness, " brother. I for one have been impacted by your posts.
Yes, I often need a nap after reading them, but when I wake up, I
am better for having read--thanks

      

Took the Red Pill
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luvin
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Dignz wrote:
ron, ya know what!?  just because someone does not direct a post reply directly TO you, does NOT mean they did not get anything out of it, or that they did not like it, or that they did not agree, or that they did not get all excited even!!  i kid you not!  i can not tell you all the posts i read and never even reply post to them, but really got a lot out of them and even say to my hubby things like:  'wasn't that a great post!?'  and we will both just really be appreciating it.

so ... i hope you will reach a more comfy place within yourself to just post your heart because you need to post your heart and know that it surely might mean something to SOME body who just hasn't said anything.  i often wonder how many people are out there that have been lurking for a long time and never post anything, yet they are really encouraged anyway. 

i apologize too for the misunderstanding of the post that says you can't post anything.  i wasn't saying no one could post.  i was quoting that from jim's post about what he wants for the shack.    i think that subject title needs to be changed.  i wasn't very clear about that, even tho' i tried to specify a little in the opening.  communication IS a tricksie thing, yes? 

i love your posts ron.  they are full of encouragement and LIFE!  so are so many others'.  i don't always post a reply to everything i get something out of.  some thoughts are posted just because they are remembering the last post read or the last comment or line or something else has just taken my focus elsewhere.

ron and everyone ... i hope always for His life's encouragement for your hearts! 

Dignz,

this was very cool.[as usual] I wanted to add too that the great place about this forum and the Spirit of God in us is that nobody here is any big deal...we don't need to be looked at as anything other than ..in Christ! Let's face it, if any of us tried getting esteem for helping people here we would be in for a rude awakening!

 

love to all!

I will be leaving the forum for a while and returning for short periods at a future date.[relocating to CO/U.S.]



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Dignz
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:01pm | IP Logged  

hey ron! :)  guess what!?  i fixed the subject of the unclear topic!  you can go post on it now!    it's called shack communication, or something like that. 

i just wasn't thinking clear headed enough for THAT subject title!  my dizzy ditzy doodle do moments manage to cause all kinds of confusion!    just think how confused my FAMILY has to be with my ditzy doodles day in and day out!! 

 i very much enjoy and appreciate your honest transparency as well!  and like dlinn said, we ALL go through the same feelings you expressed so very well verbally!  :)  we sooo relate with you bro'! 




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Dignz
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:03pm | IP Logged  

relocating?!  is that COLORADO!!?  can we come too?!    hey!  gonna reahhhhllly miss you!    hurry hurry hurry back!!  

      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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rickh
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:13pm | IP Logged  

ron, no pity here, i promise. youve shown alot of love and compassion and time for me personally.  i treasure that.  and what youve written, that i understood, was nothing short of miraculous.  i always look forward to hearing from you.  now stop cryin and get writin for Christs sake.  (literally)   love ya bro. thanks again.

      

rick
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the shovel
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:22pm | IP Logged  

I'll tell you, Ron, I have been quite surprised over the years at how people react or don't react to things I've written. Sometimes I'm pretty sure a certain letter or post is going to get a lot of response and then ... nothing. I've gotten used to the fact that every time I send out a Shoveletter or Spoonful I can almost guarantee that I'll get a maximum of 6 responses (with a few rare exceptions) and I send out hundreds. Yeah, it's pathetic that I know those numbers, isn't it?  I went through YEARS of such little response to things I thought would simply blow people away (either written or spoken) that I began to wonder why the heck I even bothered. Of course, I've fully matured now so that I never get disappointed when someone doesn't get all excited about something I shared or when someone asks me for a reference to somebody else who might explain what I just wrote better than I did.   Believe me, I STILL turn my computer on with that hopeful feeling that someone will appreciate what I've shared, and it does happen from time to time (some more than others), but MOST of the time I've simply realized that if God wants to do something with it he will when he's good and ready to do it.

I've often thought about writing a book (I've actually got the basis of a few of them already written in article form), but based on my track record I think it would probably be a flop. Oh, not that no one would appreciate it, I know some would, but it takes a lot of sales to make it worth it for a publisher. I realize that I'm just too far off the radar for most people. And then there's the fact that I put everything I write on the web site, so who needs a book? 

I'm going to tell you right now that I've already pegged you as one of the authors I want as part of my yet to be finalized gracebase.com web site (I'll be using the same CMS - content management system - software that I've started using for the new version of theshovel.net that I mentioned a few days ago). I don't say this to give you a big head, just to give you an idea of what I think about what you have to share.

Jim


      

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gregoryfl
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rickh wrote:
now stop cryin and get writin for Christs sake.  (literally)   love ya bro. thanks again.


Don't you have some chores to do?

Hey Adam, I'm sure you gonna love it in Colorado. It's so beautiful there I hear!

Thanks again everyone. You all are tempting me to be immature more often. NOT!


Ron




      

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:27pm | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:
I realize that I'm just too far off the radar for most people. And then there's the fact that I put everything I write on the web site, so who needs a book? 

I'm going to tell you right now that I've already pegged you as one of the authors I want as part of my yet to be finalized gracebase.com web site (I'll be using the same CMS - content management system - software that I've started using for the new version of theshovel.net that I mentioned a few days ago). I don't say this to give you a big head, just to give you an idea of what I think about what you have to share.

Jim


I have never seen this emote used before so had to dust it off, its the closest thing I can come up with concerning my big ol' head. LOL.

Jim, have you ever thought about an e-book? I would love to have your writings in a form I could print as a book. But about being too far off the radar, God have never been on one either, so you are in wonderful company brother.

Ron


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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rickh
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:28pm | IP Logged  

oh you crack yourself up, dont you? niccce 

adam, a buddy of mine moved to co a couple of years ago. ironically he calls it the promise land. been there myself. its beautifull. good luck.

hey jimmy, if you ever write a comic book........ you have permission to use mine and rons stuff.



Edited by rickh on Apr-21-08 at 6:32pm


      

rick
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Dignz
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:28pm | IP Logged  

"Don't you have some chores to do? "

yeah ... LAUNDRY!?


      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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rickh
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:31pm | IP Logged  

roll dont fold. hahahaha

      

rick
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Dignz
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:31pm | IP Logged  

"hey jimmy, if you ever write a comic book........ you have permission to use mine and rons stuff."


              

hey now, can people get hernias laughing too hard?!!  how christian of you is that?  making someone laugh themselves into hernias!!???  laffing pee out of you is another issue altogether!!


Edited by Dignz on Apr-21-08 at 6:32pm


      

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the shovel
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:35pm | IP Logged  

gregoryfl wrote:
But about being too far off the radar, God have never been on one either, so you are in wonderful company brother. Ron


Indeed! That's what I've come to realize so clearly. In Galatians, Paul spoke of not pleasing men, but God. And he also knew that was the very reason he was not popular. In my Shovelation version of Paul's letter I had written this:

"Get serious! If I had been looking to be the man-pleaser I used to be I sure wouldn't be hooked up with Christ ... because he's not impressed with reputation."

You know, Christ really does blow all our big plans and agendas, doesn't he?

Jim




      

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rickh
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:36pm | IP Logged  

your killing me sherr.  that happens to my sister all the time.  hohohee hee hahaha. stop, really, now, hahaha. oh jeez.

and jimmy, i love what you write as long as its 10 words or less and no more than 2 syllables per word. face to face is still the best.



      

rick
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the shovel
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:39pm | IP Logged  

Quote:
Jim, have you ever thought about an e-book?


Yes, I have, but I'm such a procrastinator. And then for people like rick I'm going to have to keep it REALLY short and simple.

Jim


      

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rickh
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:52pm | IP Logged  

im glad you bought up the subject about being in the company of Christ. why, out of more than 6 billion people in the world, does it seem there are so few that realize the life of Christ?  am i being judgemental in asking that? wouldnt you think God would choose a few more? or is it just my perception? i need like millions of you guys and girls to keep me on the straight and narrow.  any thoughts?

      

rick
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Dignz
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 6:56pm | IP Logged  

i need like millions of you guys and girls to keep me on the straight and narrow

come on now rick ... that's TOOO needy!  how much attention do you think you need anyway?!     

aren't we enough for you?  are you saying that we are 'lacking'?!    


      

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the shovel
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 7:02pm | IP Logged  

Rick, you will come to see that when you think you need others that God will show you that Christ is all you need ... and then when you think you're so alone he will show you that he's got many you simply don't know about.

Jim


      

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Broken Link
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Ron,

You got Jim to respond. That is a feat not many can lay claim to. He's been so quiet the last year or so, and here you and Matthew have him typing up a storm! If you were looking for a quantity of responses, I think you missed the quality of the one response you got. If I wasn't enjoying a lot of your writing so much, I could thank you for that one thing!



      

Bill
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heretic - n 1: a person who holds beliefs in conflict with the dogma of the church.
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rickh
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 7:18pm | IP Logged  

i think it was more of a technical question now that i ponder it. and no, your not lacking, and yes, i suppose i have all i need. you being among them. thanks

 



      

rick
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 7:18pm | IP Logged  



      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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luvin
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 7:22pm | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:
Rick, you will come to see that when you think you need others that God will show you that Christ is all you need ... and then when you think you're so alone he will show you that he's got many you simply don't know about.

Jim

This is just precious gold..thanks Jim.



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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Dave S
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 7:55pm | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:
Quote:
Jim, have you ever thought about an e-book?


Yes, I have, but I'm such a procrastinator. And then for people like rick I'm going to have to keep it REALLY short and simple.

Jim

Sherri, Sherri, whom we adore.

Tell us,

just who is the greatest

procrastinator of them all.

  

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Dignz
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 9:30pm | IP Logged  

when it comes to writing me,  ... YOU dave ... YOU!  

      

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frmhnyb2bttrfly
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Posted: Apr-21-08 at 11:49pm | IP Logged  

gregoryfl wrote:
 This was not me sharing something to feel sorry for myself, this for me is another revelation of the victory of Christ in my life. I believe that Jim and I complimented each other in what we wrote, and in seeing everyone thank Jim and not me at all, as though God planned it that way, I know I am probably making too much of that point, but...it is painful as hell to me, but it is bringing me into ever increasing freedom. It truly is.

Ron

 

God is in control.  He wants you to give Him glory and thanks for whatever fruit comes from whatever He does, not from what you think you do (or anyone of us).

"Who do you think Paul is, anyway? Or Apollos, for that matter? Servants, both of us - servants who waited on you as you gradually learned to entrust your lives to our mutual Master. We each carried out our servant assignment. I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plants, but God made you grow. It's not the one who plants or the one who waters who is at the center of this process but God, who makes things grow. Planting and watering are menial servant jobs at minimum wages. What makes them worth doing is the God we are serving. You happen to be God's field in which we are working. Using the gift God gave me as a good architect, I designed blueprints; Apollos is putting up the walls. Let each carpenter who comes on the job take care to build on the foundation!"

Not that this scripture has anything to do with it, but i just need to say that God can use your gifts for His glory.  He can stop any time.  I'm afraid i've praised you too much in regard to your gifts.  i see what God will do with you, and talk about it prematurely.  It's good to see Him doing this ego squashing in you.  i know it hurts.  i've felt it.  Try wearing a scarf on your head for a month.  When i say it's good to see you hurting, i don't mean i like to see you hurting.  No.  i'm thinking of:

"By entering through faith into what God has always wanted to do for us - set us right with him, make us fit for him - we have it all together with God because of our Master Jesus. And that's not all: We throw open our doors to God and discover at the same moment that he has already thrown open his door to us. We find ourselves standing where we always hoped we might stand - out in the wide open spaces of God's grace and glory, standing tall and shouting our praise. There's more to come: We continue to shout our praise even when we're hemmed in with troubles, because we know how troubles can develop passionate patience in us, and how that patience in turn forges the tempered steel of virtue, keeping us alert for whatever God will do next. In alert expectancy such as this, we're never left feeling shortchanged. Quite the contrary - we can't round up enough containers to hold everything God generously pours into our lives through the Holy Spirit! Christ arrives right on time to make this happen. He didn't, and doesn't, wait for us to get ready. He presented himself for this sacrificial death when we were far too weak and rebellious to do anything to get ourselves ready. And even if we hadn't been so weak, we wouldn't have known what to do anyway."



Edited by frmhnyb2bttrfly on Apr-21-08 at 11:55pm


      

"for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. "
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Apr-22-08 at 6:33am | IP Logged  

Thanks hun. 

      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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luvin
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Posted: Jul-12-10 at 10:49am | IP Logged  

the shovel wrote:
Rick, you will come to see that when you think you need others that God will show you that Christ is all you need ... and then when you think you're so alone he will show you that he's got many you simply don't know about.

Jim



I REALLY hear Christ in this.

Thanks Jim

Adam


      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Jul-12-10 at 12:38pm | IP Logged  

frmhnyb2bttrfly wrote:

God is in control.  He wants you to give Him glory and thanks for whatever fruit comes from whatever He does, not from what you think you do (or anyone of us).

"Who do you think Paul is, anyway? Or Apollos, for that matter? Servants, both of us - servants who waited on you as you gradually learned to entrust your lives to our mutual Master. We each carried out our servant assignment. I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plants, but God made you grow. It's not the one who plants or the one who waters who is at the center of this process but God, who makes things grow. Planting and watering are menial servant jobs at minimum wages. What makes them worth doing is the God we are serving. You happen to be God's field in which we are working. Using the gift God gave me as a good architect, I designed blueprints; Apollos is putting up the walls. Let each carpenter who comes on the job take care to build on the foundation!"

Not that this scripture has anything to do with it, but i just need to say that God can use your gifts for His glory.  He can stop any time.  I'm afraid i've praised you too much in regard to your gifts.  i see what God will do with you, and talk about it prematurely.  It's good to see Him doing this ego squashing in you.  i know it hurts.  i've felt it.  Try wearing a scarf on your head for a month.  When i say it's good to see you hurting, i don't mean i like to see you hurting.  No.  i'm thinking of:

"By entering through faith into what God has always wanted to do for us - set us right with him, make us fit for him - we have it all together with God because of our Master Jesus. And that's not all: We throw open our doors to God and discover at the same moment that he has already thrown open his door to us. We find ourselves standing where we always hoped we might stand - out in the wide open spaces of God's grace and glory, standing tall and shouting our praise. There's more to come: We continue to shout our praise even when we're hemmed in with troubles, because we know how troubles can develop passionate patience in us, and how that patience in turn forges the tempered steel of virtue, keeping us alert for whatever God will do next. In alert expectancy such as this, we're never left feeling shortchanged. Quite the contrary - we can't round up enough containers to hold everything God generously pours into our lives through the Holy Spirit! Christ arrives right on time to make this happen. He didn't, and doesn't, wait for us to get ready. He presented himself for this sacrificial death when we were far too weak and rebellious to do anything to get ourselves ready. And even if we hadn't been so weak, we wouldn't have known what to do anyway."

This brings back memories...painful ones, (because of the utter failures of the various endeavors I have engaged in) but just another God-moment in reminding me of his promise to me, of my personal thorn in which his grace is sufficient, and knowing that in what I deem as failure will be for future generations long after I'm gone. I so needed to re-read this from my faithful wife. Thanks for bringing this posting up Adam. :) Truly my greatest disappointments are the Lord greatest victories. I rethought about this and deleted the part that did not apply to what I was wanting to share, so as not to cause misunderstanding.



ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Jul-12-10 at 8:08pm


      

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Jul-12-10 at 8:21pm | IP Logged  

"We find ourselves standing where we always hoped we might stand - out in the wide open spaces of God's grace and glory, standing tall and shouting our praise."

I especially enjoyed this part of what Paul said.

"I'm afraid i've praised you too much in regard to your gifts."~Melissa aka "butterfly".

This is partly what she shared at our gathering last Saturday, and I got a bit nervous when she started sharing as to how it would be taken. I'm glad though, that she shared it, because I know there have been times when she has been thought of as someone who just hangs on my every word and follows me, because of her habit of saying "Ron told me this, and Ron says this" etc. I'm not sure that anyone understood totally what she was getting at, but I just want her to realize more and more, as well as others, that no one person has the exclusive on Christ, that he is rich in and through each and every one of us, and I love reading the various expressions of Life here on the Shack, as well as from those I gather with, and, of course, my beautiful wifey.

Ron


      

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