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The Stuff of Grace
 Shovel Shack : The Stuff of Grace
Subject Topic: Storms of Life
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Jul-05-08 at 3:52pm | IP Logged  

We, who belong to Messiah, are not those who seek to avoid the storms of life, but we live life knowing they will come, and, in the midst of their fiercest rage, we are found at complete rest. May we all be reminded daily that such rest is our birthright.

Ron


Edited by gregoryfl on Jul-05-08 at 4:02pm


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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the shovel
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Posted: Jul-06-08 at 6:57am | IP Logged  

A good word, Ron. Thanks! :)

Jim


      

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meek
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Posted: Jul-06-08 at 10:35am | IP Logged  

thanks Ron, i needed that. 

rest in peace, my new mantra.



      

meek
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Dignz
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Posted: Jul-07-08 at 1:13pm | IP Logged  

peace in the midst of chaos and storms!  now there's the miracle!  :)

"...avoid the storms of life..." 

yeah, such the delusion that we CAN avoid them in the first place.  such a false hope in the world of religion, ya know?  if we only do a, b and c, the x, y and z will be avoided and/or never happen.

sighhhhh ....

i used to have such delusions and false hopes that way concerning  'prayer'.  but whatever my preconceived ideas and delusions were, it didn't matter.  god teaches us in the midst of all these life experiences ... revealing our delusions and showing the illusions for what they are, leaving us with the realization of I AM in and through it all.




      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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gregoryfl
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Posted: Jul-07-08 at 4:09pm | IP Logged  

Dignz wrote:
god teaches us in the midst of all these life experiences ... revealing our delusions and showing the illusions for what they are, leaving us with the realization of I AM in and through it all.


Love that! Well, I love the thought, not always the application . Being revealed can sometimes be painful, even though necessary. Thanks for sharing that truth. Shack quote!


      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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Broken Link
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Posted: Jul-07-08 at 7:12pm | IP Logged  

Was that Peter's lack of faith on the sea of Galilee? Not that he couldn't believe enough to walk on the water, but that he began to believe that he was doing it? Kind of unrelated, but storms...revealing delusions, etc. It was what came to mind.



      

Bill
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heretic - n 1: a person who holds beliefs in conflict with the dogma of the church.
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realrestisbest
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 2:35am | IP Logged  

[QUOTE=Broken Link]

Was that Peter's lack of faith on the sea of Galilee? Not that he couldn't believe enough to walk on the water, but that he began to believe that he was doing it? Kind of unrelated, but storms...revealing delusions, etc. It was what came to mind.



This brings us some intresting thoughts.  So would you say that Peter exerted misplaced confidence.  In other words fleshly courage.  ]


Perhaps, Peter in faith trusted the Lord to walk out on the water but doubted when he saw something that to his fleshly mind was impossible,  but possible with God........



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the shovel
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 8:06am | IP Logged  

RRIB wrote:
Broken Link wrote:
Was that Peter's lack of faith on the sea of Galilee? Not that he couldn't believe enough to walk on the water, but that he began to believe that he was doing it? Kind of unrelated, but storms...revealing delusions, etc. It was what came to mind.

This brings us some intresting thoughts.  So would you say that Peter exerted misplaced confidence.  In other words fleshly courage. Perhaps, Peter in faith trusted the Lord to walk out on the water but doubted when he saw something that to his fleshly mind was impossible,  but possible with God........

Excellent insight!! I always loved this story. I used it often in my messages to the youth group I headed up in the '70s. And somehow, beyond the formula that is often connected, there was a consistent testimony to the miraculousness of faith to my heart. I loved the story not because I could explain it ... but because I couldn't. :)

As the night was ending, Jesus came to them walking on the sea. When the disciples saw him walking on the water they were terrified and said, “It’s a ghost!” and cried out with fear. But immediately Jesus spoke to them: “Have courage! It is I. Do not be afraid.” Peter said to him, “Lord, if it is you, order me to come to you on the water.” So he said, “Come.” Peter got out of the boat, walked on the water, and came toward Jesus. But when he saw the strong wind he became afraid. And starting to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!” Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?” When they went up into the boat, the wind ceased. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” (Matthew 14:25-32 NET)

Indeed, it was through faith that Peter heard the voice of Jesus and climbed overboard in the first place. All the objections of his fleshly mind had been pushed aside at the simple word, "Come!". Otherwise, I doubt a career fisherman would have even put the first leg over the railing in such a ridiculous attempt. Bill, as you suggest, I can easily imagine his thoughts going to one simple question as he looked around: WHAT AM I DOING OUT HERE??!! And then, of course, the questions of how and why had brought him back to what he always considered "reason". I can just imagine him trying to step back up on the surface of the water as he began to sink ... as if it had actually been holding him up in the first place. Perhaps Peter's gradual sinking was designed by God so that he would have the time to imagine himself needing to DO what he DID in order to make it happen in the first place. Isn't that exactly what we do when we try to recreate a work of God in our lives?

Now I have to wonder what kind of "faith" it was of which Jesus spoke, "You of little faith, why did you doubt?". What if this is the same kind of "faith" (seen in Matthew 16) by which Peter answered boldly to Jesus, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God!", only to turn around shortly thereafter and arrogantly denounce him when Jesus prophesied his coming crucifixion? What if this was the same kind of "faith" (seen in Matthew 17) by which Peter had suggested building cubicles (i.e. "tabernacles" or "booths") in order to contain the glory they had witnessed on the mountain top when Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah?

And then even more closely related in their memories, what if this was the same kind of "faith" by which Peter judged the miracle Jesus had just performed in their presence before he sent them away on the same boat from which he walked on water. They had just experienced Jesus feeding a crowd of the 5,000 from 5 loaves and 2 fish. And then, a short while later (as seen in Matthew 15) Jesus did the very same thing by feeding 4,000 from 7 loaves of bread and a few fish. This kind of "faith" seems to fade very quickly, doesn't it? Consider this:

When the disciples went to the other side, they forgot to take bread. “Watch out,” Jesus said to them, “beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” So they began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “It is because we brought no bread.” When Jesus learned of this, he said, “You who have such little faith! Why are you arguing among yourselves about having no bread? Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you took up? Or the seven loaves for the four thousand and how many baskets you took up? How could you not understand that I was not speaking to you about bread? But beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees!” Then they understood that he had not told them to be on guard against the yeast in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. (Matthew 16:5-12 NET)

When I was a kid, I had a little plastic cross that glowed in the dark after having absorbed light. It faded after a short while away from the light. I found much enjoyment in taking that cross and a lamp into a dark room where I would press the cross right against the light bulb so that I could experiment with how bright it would get, as well as how long it would last, after turning the lamp off. The truth is that throughout their whole time together, Jesus continually stuck their noses into the stinky smell of the faith they thought they had. Their faith was the same always-fading remnant of a law-produced insight. It came with the presence of God and yet faded like that little cross as soon as the light-source was removed. And yet somehow, they couldn't see past the obvious reality of such short-lived faith. Each manifestation of the presence of God declared a permanence they soon forgot.

When Moses came down the mountain with the 10 commandments, his face shone. Of course, as would be expected, it kind of unnerved the people. And after Moses finished telling them what God had told him to say he put a covering over his face. Now this glowing-face thing didn't stop after his mountaintop experience, for it happened every single time Moses came out of the tent where he met God face to face (Exodus 34:29-35). Moses took the veil off his face before he went into the tent so that his skin would absorb the light of God, and each time he came out to pass on what God commanded him to say. And then he put the covering back over.  Nobody seemed to question what happened to the glow on Moses' face in between those times. But God revealed it to us, for as Paul testified:

But if the ministry that produced death – carved in letters on stone tablets – came with glory, so that the Israelites could not keep their eyes fixed on the face of Moses because of the glory of his face (a glory which was made ineffective), how much more glorious will the ministry of the Spirit be? For if there was glory in the ministry that produced condemnation, how much more does the ministry that produces righteousness excel in glory! For indeed, what had been glorious now has no glory because of the tremendously greater glory of what replaced it. For if what was made ineffective came with glory, how much more has what remains come in glory! Therefore, since we have such a hope, we behave with great boldness, and not like Moses who used to put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from staring at the result of the glory that was made ineffective. But their minds were closed. For to this very day, the same veil remains when they hear the old covenant read. It has not been removed because only in Christ is it taken away. But until this very day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their minds, but when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is present, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit. (2Corinthians 3:7-18 NET)

What if the thing Jesus was doing by constantly speaking to his disciples of their "little faith" had to do with the temporary thing they had come to accept based upon that which ministered death? What if what he was doing was bringing everything of the ministry of death into the light so that it could be seen for what it is ... even though they would not really see it until after his death and resurrection when they were given the spirit of God? What if he was letting them see how their little crosses couldn't help but fade in the face of that which didn't fade (which was the life of God in himself)? What an experience that must have been for those men. But then again, I think we're being brought through the same when we listen to fleshly wisdom and then try to follow through in order to resurrect that which has died.

Anyhow, as Bill said, Just some thoughts. :)

Jim



Edited by the shovel on Jul-18-08 at 8:09am


      

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mcdave
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 10:57am | IP Logged  

LOl Jim,this could have been a future shovel letter

      

     It's not works,it's coffee.
   

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realrestisbest
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 11:23am | IP Logged  

So Jim do you think that the people responded to the fading glory of the OT.  By always seeking his presence wherever they went?  Such as when Moses said something to the effect of we will not go if you are not with us. So the people only saw the dividing line of the veil so to speak. 

Where in contrast to our present time the spirit lives in us and is always present? So this glory is never fading???? 
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the shovel
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 11:38am | IP Logged  

mcdave wrote:
LOl Jim,this could have been a future shovel letter


Laugh all you want, Mr Funny Man ... that's what I'm doing right now!


      

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gregoryfl
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 12:50pm | IP Logged  

Wonderful insight Jim. Thanks Bill and Realrest for spurring us to think through it. 

      

What do you see when you look at me? Not the visible me that your eyes can see. For in Christ I am dead, yet alive and free. Free to be it all, as he lives in me.
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Dignz
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Posted: Jul-18-08 at 1:52pm | IP Logged  

i especially LOVE this:  :)

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is present, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

that was great, james!  :)

this is also great, real rest:

"Where in contrast to our present time the spirit lives in us and is always present ... so this glory is never fading".

:)



      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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Miriam
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Posted: Jul-19-08 at 11:13am | IP Logged  

That thing with Peter walking on the water and the disciples having
little faith... They may have had small faith, because it was their own
faith. They got the very faith of Jesus after the Cross. Look at the
difference between Peter walking on the water and the book of Acts.
Life in Christ is good. His faith is so much better than my small faith.   


      

Good Adam can't and bad Adam won't...
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Dignz
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Posted: Jul-19-08 at 12:59pm | IP Logged  

miriam, enjoyed that.   

      

"afterall, he's not a tame lion"
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nyagali
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Posted: Jul-21-08 at 9:13am | IP Logged  

Welcome to the Shack Miriam! I appreciated what you shared and will look forward to hearing more of what you share on here. If Jesus did nothing in his own flesh then how can we expect to have anything to offer either?

Joy

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meek
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Posted: Jul-21-08 at 10:53am | IP Logged  

WOW Jim! It is always a pleasure to read your thoughts. 

There are times when I feel like my relationship with God is like the glow in the dark cross (by the way, I had one too).  Shining bright and then fades but is always there.  There are times when I struggle with questions I want to ask but hold back because I'm not sure there is LIFE in them.  The questions churn over in my mind and I don't know if I need to rest in knowing God is my guide and I will know when and if the things I ponder are worth bringing to the surface or not.  I don't feel as if these issues are fleshy or not, I just wonder if putting them on the shelf is the way to go.

I wish Jesus would put my face in a batch of smelly fish.

 

 



      

meek
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Connie
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Posted: Sep-29-10 at 9:09am | IP Logged  

Jim, your message in this thread points out the wonderful faithfulness of God to me in Christ. Day in, day out, the things I do, the places I go, the things I listen to, speak, etc. are in some way orchestrated by him. And yet, didn't I choose for myself? It's like there's no difference between the two...He or me? We are one and his grace truly is constantly redeeming and glorifying the truth.

This message was a wonderful, eye opener for the day.



      

Connie
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II Cor.4:5-6

    
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the shovel
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Posted: Sep-29-10 at 12:05pm | IP Logged  

Connie, it's always good to hear from you! :) I am glad that it provided an eye-opener.

Jim


      

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the shovel
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realrestisbest wrote:
So Jim do you think that the people responded to the fading glory of the OT.  By always seeking his presence wherever they went?  Such as when Moses said something to the effect of we will not go if you are not with us. So the people only saw the dividing line of the veil so to speak. 

Where in contrast to our present time the spirit lives in us and is always present? So this glory is never fading???? 


Somehow I missed this one.

Indeed, this glory is never fading. Regarding Israel, consider this:

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not attain to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stone of stumbling.
(Romans 9:30-32)

Always seeking, but never finding. That's the way it is according to the law that tries to work through the flesh.

Jim


      

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luvin
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Posted: Sep-29-10 at 9:05pm | IP Logged  

Jim said;

 

"What if the thing Jesus was doing by constantly speaking to his disciples of their "little faith" had to do with the temporary thing they had come to accept based upon that which ministered death? What if what he was doing was bringing everything of the ministry of death into the light so that it could be seen for what it is ... even though they would not really see it until after his death and resurrection when they were given the spirit of God?"-Jim

 

Hey, wow, somehow I missed this. I remember when you wrote this Jim but, did not catch it's meaning at the time ....this is SO resonating and in agreement within me.[in this sense I feel just like Peter!] Hey how about a shack quote here? Any trouble?

 

Adam



      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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the shovel
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Posted: Sep-30-10 at 3:30am | IP Logged  

Good morning, Adam! I'm on my way to work but wanted to check in. I'll see if I can shrink it down for a shackquote when I get home. It's a little long as it is.

Jim :)


      

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luvin
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Posted: Sep-30-10 at 9:50pm | IP Logged  

ok.

      

It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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the shovel
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Posted: Oct-01-10 at 12:43pm | IP Logged  

I tried to downsize it, but I couldn't do it without losing too much of the connection, so I entered it as is. :)

      

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luvin
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It is peace[the kind we long for] to know that my life patterns do not distract or derail the Living God"-Adam

http:newthatsliving.blogspot.com
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